Laying hands on my Haflinger

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heinkeljb
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by heinkeljb »

Like the others above, I am unclear what changing the stud size to larger will achieve. The PDC is going remain 98mm unless you re-drill holes. I am not even sure the larger size studs will go through the holes in either the 13 or 14 inch Fiat style rims.

So on to another point "see what I did there"? That bit as far as I can tell make any oil that leaks out of the hub via the shaft seal, drip off the point and that as you have discovered, can be bent so it does not drip straight on the braking surface, but can be directed to the edge.
It certainly does not work to align anything up to it. The cutouts on the hub are so you can remove the four long bolts that hold the two halves of the hub together.

If you want to, you can remove just the hub by removing the four bolts on the rear of the hub holding the cover in place. Stick a tire leaver in the studs (Oh - you can't do that because you have removed them!), Anyway, prevent the hub from turning somehow, then undo the nut on the back of the hub which holds the shaft in place. Remove hub. As long as you don't replace the bearings, or split the hub halves, you should be able just to put it back together without having the change any shims dealing with the hub bearings preload.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Tennmogger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by Tennmogger »

Garry, the new wheels were custom made for a Haflinger by Marc at Little Wheels and Tires in Denver. These wheels are 5" wide, 13" dia (plenty of tires available), with correct backspacing, but were made for M12 studs. Marc has converted his Hafi to M12 studs. The reason to go to new wheels was to allow using available tires. Original 12" tires fitting 3.5 inch rims are hard to obtain in the USA, as I have not found a single source.

Also, a set of alloy wheels (4 on 98mm) obtained from the Hafi's previous owner will require 'sleeve' nuts (as used on alloy wheels). Extensive web looking shows many available sleeve nuts in M12, but few in M10. I think an off-the-shelf set of alloy wheel sleeve nuts will be found for M12 studs (probably what was installed on the alloy wheels source car.)

BTW, I have been reading every Haflinger forum I can find. Conversion to 12mm studs seemed to be a common upgrade.

Markus, I agree that normally I would not modify the vehicle. Maybe my choice to change to M12 is more clear now. If I were in Europe with the resources available there I would not consider modification.

John, thanks for explaining the downward pointer. Makes sense but I certainly did not think of a 'drip director'. Thanks for all the guidance.

Bob
1952 Willys M-38, Unimogs from 1957, 1965, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1988, and a 1968 Haflinger NA bugeye!
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heinkeljb
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by heinkeljb »

Bob, Now at you have explained the lack of choice for original tyres to go on original wheels, presumably similar issues with the "Fiat" based rims? If you can get other rims that use the 12mm studs at a price you are prepared to pay, then obviously it is a worthwhile exercise. The only issue at that point is the 98mm PDC - but if that is also taken care of with your "custom" rims, then all well and good.

The only problem I can see is that with the original offset wider tyres might foul the springs. Presumably, your statement about correct "backspacing" means that there is a change in the Offset of these new alloys which means they do not foul the springs when fitted with wider tyres, a common size being 195 which would give lots of choice in Europe and would go on a 5 inch wide rim.

Going by the issues I had with my Hafi on the brake system, I would just bite the bullet and replace all the flexible pipes, wheel cylinders, master cylinder in one go and know that the brakes were as good as they are going to be! (Your brake shoes looked like a new set in hte picture).

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Tennmogger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by Tennmogger »

There are many choices for tires in the 13" size. Both the custom wheels and the Fiat wheels are 13". The Fiat wheels have highway tires on them, and there are offroad tires on the custom wheels so the Hafi should be set for any use.

I was concerned about the wheel offset, ie, backspacing, too. Before I bought the custom wheels and new tires, one was mounted and installed on another Haflinger to verify clearance. I believe all is well.

The wheel cylinders were replaced with new ones, and yes, the brake shoes are all new also. I've not yet rebuilt the master but that's on the agenda next. Once the Hafi can again be rolled around and can stop itself, I'll move on to engine and drivetrain refurb.

Right now the poor Hafi is on blocks again, in my shop, and I have a personal rule to never test fire gasoline engines inside so that has had to wait. If I were not so busy on other projects, I'd be getting very anxious to drive it!

Bob
1952 Willys M-38, Unimogs from 1957, 1965, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1988, and a 1968 Haflinger NA bugeye!
Tennmogger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by Tennmogger »

Here's an update on the lug bolt change for the two sets of tires. Recapping, with no good USA source for DOT tires in 12", I elected to go to 13" wheels. Two types of 13" wheels became available, one type for farm and offroad, and another (alloy) wheels for highway. The Haflinger will be both a workhorse on the farm and will be taken to town for parades and such.

Both the new wheels would work with 12mm studs. Neither would work with 10mm (original) without specially made nuts or sleeve nuts. I decided to change the lugs to 12mm.

The result is two sets of wheels and tires which are usable with off-the-shelf nuts, plain and sleeve type.
Last edited by Tennmogger on Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1952 Willys M-38, Unimogs from 1957, 1965, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1988, and a 1968 Haflinger NA bugeye!
walderse
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by walderse »

Bob,
Congratulations on the excellent fix for your given situation. Did you use a generic 12mm wheel stud or had you picked one from a particular vehicle as a reference? What overall length did you choose? What tires do you plan to run on your aluminum rims?

Take care.

Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com
Tennmogger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by Tennmogger »

Jim, target was a 12mm stud with same length as original, about 45mm. Found Dorman 610-384.1, M12-1.50 serrated wheel stud, 15.87MM KNURL, 44.5MM LENGTH. AutoZone carried them.

This is not a recommendation for that number because the lugs had to be modified substantially to fit. Actually, any larger lug bolt will probably have to be modified to fit. 1) The head of any 12mm lug bolts I found were too thick to rotate past the 'lube drip director' at the bottom of the hub, so the heads were thinned to 1/16" approx. 2) the lug's serrations stopped a couple of mm short of the inner surface of the heads and created an interference fit so the heads would not pull down. I ground out that obstruction on each lug with a thin air grinder disc. 3) The lug bolts were too big to 'go around the corner' into the enlarged holes in the axle flange so a 'corner' of the lug's flange was ground down for clearance. There's the most working room at the bottom of the brake assembly with the slave cylinder removed.

Other details: enlarged holes were made with a 15.5mm drill (for 15.87MM knurl) and that was a tight fit. Had to use 1/2" impact wrench to pull the lug bolts in. The 15.5 drill bit was sourced on Amazon then Ebay. Bit of a story here. 15.5 mm is not exactly a common drill size. The first two I bought were 15.5 but of such poor quality they would not drill out even one hole. They were stamped 'HSS' but obviously were not. What could I have expected for 7 bucks each. Avoid Amico brand from China). Then found a Nachi brand 15.5mm HSS bit on Ebay and that one held up just fine ($20). Only down side to that bit was having to turn the shaft down to half inch to fit a drill.

Oh, a comment on drilling perpendicular to the hub: I used a pair of magnetic welding fixtures at 90 degrees to each other as a guide for the bit. That seemed to work well except the steel shavings had to be pryed off the magnets after each hole!

The beveled nuts chosen for the offroad (steel) wheels were generic ones from Autozone, from their stock in 12mm x 1.5.

The sleeve nuts for the alloy wheels were a little tougher to find. Needed 12mm x 1.5 of course, with correct OD for my Fiat alloy wheels (the four holes measuring about 11/16" = 0.687) for a wheel thickness of 3/4". Got from Jegs: McGard 61-002, Jegs number 671-61002, TOUGH NUT MAG, 12MMX1.5, 0.679 inch outer diameter. Fit is tight because the alloy wheels showed a little cold-flow/deformation around the holes from previous usage (the whole purpose of sleeve nuts is to prevent that flow). Total of about $47 for 16 sleeve nuts. Sure could not get machine shop to make them that cheap.

The tires on the alloy wheels are Goodyear 'aqua tires', those weird looking ones with a water groove down the center. They are in decent condition so I'll run them a while.

So that's more detail than asked for, Jim, but maybe useful to someone in the future.

Bob
1952 Willys M-38, Unimogs from 1957, 1965, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1988, and a 1968 Haflinger NA bugeye!
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heinkeljb
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by heinkeljb »

Seems like an awful lot of work to get replacement wheels, especially as you can buy 4x98 rims the bot straight on to the original hubs.
I am not saying there is anything wrong with what you have done Bob, Everything you have done obviously works and works well. Thanks for the information,
The only real gripe I have is that I had to "scroll" left and right to read it and look at the pictures! :)
And,
I'm :mrgreen: over your off road tyres! They look like they would work really well in loose ground conditions.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Tennmogger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by Tennmogger »

The Hafi has come a long way during the past few months. The change of lug bolts to 12mm was completed and the wheels mounted. The brakes were replaced, master and slave cylinders rebuilt or replaced, carb rebuilt, and engine cylinders and pistons soaked with penetrating lube (engine has not run for years) and turns freely. Compression felt great.

Last weekend a battery was installed and the engine started with little effort. It runs quite well, if a little sputtering is ignored when accelerator pump is active. Best to use the middle hole on the pump linkage, right?

I am impressed with the performance! I live on a long gravel driveway with some hills and the Haflinger pulls them faster than a 404 Unimog. Ok, that's not much of a standard of comparison but my 404's run quite well :-)

One of the rubber brake hoses is apparently swollen internally so there a little brake drag. Replacements are already on order from SAV. I also need to replace the choke cable when I find one locally that's long enough. I'm thinking VW choke cable. Has anyone tried it?

A low speed miss is points related, I think. I have a Pertronix ignition upgrade on order from Expedition imports.

The Haflinger actually worked for a living today. I used it to drive around the pastures and tilled fields to pick up tree limbs that have come down in our storms. Then I ran it out to the mailbox after dark tonight (lights work, sort of), topless (as in convertible!), in the cool breeze! Can harldy wait to get some paperwork and get it licensed.

Those of you who know me know I'm a long time Unimog fan but this little truck is SO nimble and capable. The offroad tires provide a light footprint in the muddy fields and I only felt them slip a little on one ditch crossing, before switching in 4wd. BTW, I experienced the "Pinzgauer tricycle effect" while crossing some freshly dozed land, and that got my attention. Obviously Haflingers behave the same as Pinzgauers!

Will post more pictures when I remember to take the camera.

Bob
1952 Willys M-38, Unimogs from 1957, 1965, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1988, and a 1968 Haflinger NA bugeye!
Tennmogger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by Tennmogger »

Here's a low res photo I took with my phone today.
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hafi at pond.jpg
1952 Willys M-38, Unimogs from 1957, 1965, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1988, and a 1968 Haflinger NA bugeye!
Tennmogger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by Tennmogger »

And another
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Hafi at creek.jpg
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heinkeljb
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by heinkeljb »

Bob,

There is quite a long thread on a Carb rebuild by Gary in which I am sure the accelerator pump leaver is the top / end hole not the middle.

If you still have issues, then it is like likely to be the valve system inside the pump bit. There is a rubber seal which is bonded to the end of a jet which appears to be the culprit.

John

P.S. you only have to look on U-Tube to see the "waggaling" of wheels in the air! Just like the Pinz or Mog's.
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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AustHaflinger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by AustHaflinger »

heinkeljb wrote:Bob,

There is quite a long thread on a Carb rebuild by Gary in which I am sure the accelerator pump leaver is the top / end hole not the middle.
Are we talking a Zenith carb here.

John is correct in sorting my carb all the advice was to put the accelerator pump in the outer end hole and that is where mine went - HOWEVER on the dyno it was found that the best spot was the middle hole and that is where mine is now.

It does get all confusing but tuning on a dyno with the hydro/o2 sensor shoved up its clacker does show what works best.

Garry
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Tennmogger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by Tennmogger »

Hi Garry, John,

Yes it's a Zenith 32NDIX. Since moving the accel pump to middle hole the carb has been running better. I ran the Hafi today for a while and after it warmed up there was little hesitation when accelerating. I can live with it. The idle speed got bumped up a little, too, and that might have helped. I have no idea what speed it idles but probably not over 800-900 rpm.

I replaced my choke cable today with one from Napa (p/n 731-1108). This is a 9 ft cable and was only a couple of feet too long. BTW if anyone wants to replace the choke cable, just use the old one to snake through the new one, especially near the engine where the choke cable disappears inside a boxed in section. Just ahead of the box section I cut the old cable, pulled out the center wire, and stuck the new wire in the old spiral housing. Then just push the new cable and it follows the old one through the box.

Put on two new Dynastarter belts, too. I notice the pulleys on the Dynastarter never align perfectly with the crank pulleys. The entire dynastarter mount seems canted to the rear. Any solution for that? Yes, I set the pulley widths to tension the new belts. The Dynastarter looks tilted to the rear even with no belts. Maybe this is in my new manuals, arrived today, as yet unread. Thanks.

[edit: an observation, the pulleys on the Dynastart shaft had chewed up the shaft at some time in the past. The damage was repaired by welding. Is this a common failure, Dynastart shaft nut coming loose?]

Bob
1952 Willys M-38, Unimogs from 1957, 1965, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1988, and a 1968 Haflinger NA bugeye!
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heinkeljb
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by heinkeljb »

It does seem to be an issue if the nut is not done up tight and the pulleys start to "rattle" on the shaft.

It also is related to the number of washers that you have on the shaft as too many and there is not enough thread on shaft / nut to hold it tight for very long and also the possibility that the threads in the nut on the shaft have been stripped in the past.

I think you should take the Dynastart off and just check that the little peg underneath the fan housing bit is actually located in the hole correctly. It is there to locate the fan housing in the correct position for the ignition timing mark on the lower pulley to line up on so it is critical to setup the engine but not if it is currently running.
I presume you have used the washers that are fitted in between the Dynastart pulley halves evenly? It appears that on early engine there are more washers than on later engines, but should still be an even number so you can put half on one side of the middle section of the pulleys and half on the other side before putting on the outer pulley half and doing the nut up. Check the tension of the belts, should not be able to push in the middle of the longest run more than about 1 - 2 cm with moderate pressure. If too slack, then remove one washer from either side of middle pulley half and try again.

There is a hole in the fan through which you put a suitable bar to hold the fan whilst tightening the nut. Buried somewhere in the repair manual is the required torque - It is not with all the other "settings". You need to read the section where it talks about "dismantling" the Dynastart to find it! I will look it up for you this evening if required.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Tennmogger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by Tennmogger »

Hi John,

Thanks for the thought on the Dynastart alignment pin. I will check that today.

There were an even number of washers, 6. The pulleys needed 3 each to properly tension the belt. Is 6 the normal number? Placing 3 in each groove left none for the nut, not a problem I think. Thankfully the nut and shaft threads are in good condition. I went through the operators manual last night and read the section on belt tensioning.

Todays task, install all 5 brake flexible hoses received yesterday from SAV.

Bob
1952 Willys M-38, Unimogs from 1957, 1965, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1988, and a 1968 Haflinger NA bugeye!
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heinkeljb
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by heinkeljb »

Hi Bob,

Yes, 6 washers is the same as I have on my Dynatart although I seem to remember reading about there being more washers - maybe a early engine? My engine is a late engine as it was fitted in 1983. As the belts stretch you might have to take one washer out from each side and those you put under the nut when you put is back together again.

Torque Setting for the "Special" nut is 73.30 ft-lbs (10mkg) - This is in the engine stripping section of the repair manual - I have not seen it anywhere else in any of the books I have.

Depending on the exhaust system of your Haflinger, you might find it easier to take the rear springs out to replace the rear flexible brake hoses. It definitely is on mine which is a LWB with the two heat exchangers in the way!

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Tennmogger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by Tennmogger »

Hi John,

You were correct about the Dynastarter not being seated correctly. It was rotated clockwise from normal, but it was obvious why some previous owner has assembled it that way: the heavy electrical wire, power to the Dynastarter, was too short to fit when the Dynastarter was in the right position! That was easily resolved. Now the two belts look better....not perfect, but ok.

Got all five brake hoses replaced today too. Actually had help from a neighbor who loves the Haflinger. One of the old flex hoses would not unscrew from a tubing nut so I'm going to have to make a short piece of brake tubing with flanges. Another tool to buy!

Bob
1952 Willys M-38, Unimogs from 1957, 1965, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1988, and a 1968 Haflinger NA bugeye!
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heinkeljb
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by heinkeljb »

Bob,

Great you have found the issue with the Dyanstart - It really could have done with a more substantial locating peg system to stop you rotating it as it is part of the ignition timing system... Still if you know about it, it does work.

Sorry to hear about the brake hose issue, hopefully you will find that it is that flexible hose that has failed! (at least it would justify having all the hassle to replace it).

Next problem will be setting the brake shoes in the correct places to get even braking - can be time consuming!

Enjoy it when it is working......

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Tennmogger
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Re: Laying hands on my Haflinger

Post by Tennmogger »

Hi John,

Is the position of the Dynastarter involved in ignition timing other than simply providing that marker on the fan shroud? If so, I don't understand.

Brakes are working great. I can slam on the brakes and come to a straight stop going downhill in gravel. That's a good test! Still have to readjust all again because I backed off on all four brakes (8 shoes) during the time the hoses were plugged, and the pedal is a little low.

I had not mentioned that all five hoses were so swollen that I could not force air through them!! No wonder my brakes were dragging.

Another goal reached, got lights working. Had to replace a fuse, then found the hi-low foot switch not making contact. After about 100 operations it never misses a 'dip'. SO much can go wrong with a vehicle that has sat for well over a decade.

Now to work on a rusted out gas tank. Right not I'm running off a gerry can.

Question unanswered by search: Do all Haflingers have rubber overload spring blocks inside the coil springs? This one does, and it has some places where something like an overhead platform had been mounted. Could have been a ROPS. Photos to follow.

Bob
1952 Willys M-38, Unimogs from 1957, 1965, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1988, and a 1968 Haflinger NA bugeye!
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