Laying hands on my Haflinger

[Tennmogger]

After many months being 1400 miles from my new '68 NA Haflinger Bugeye, I'm finally here in CO to pick it up! I have been cleaning it today, and evaluating. I'll add a few pictures.

My goal this trip is just to get it off the jack stands, rolling, loaded, and hauled back to TN for restoration. This trip, there's no way I can get brakes rebuilt (if all parts are here) and engine and drivetrain checked out. I'll be happy to get it on wheels and rolled onto my truck.

First problem is the wheels (originals without tires). So far only one original wheel has been found (it has been on blocks for years). The original tires were totally shot I'm told. The previous owner has another set of wheels with tires (Fiat?) that might work. Two major problems when I looked at the replacement wheels: lug hole diameter is too large (just slightly smaller than the OD of the lug nuts). The nuts would pull into the holes. This application will require a shouldered lug nut to center the nuts around the lug bolt. That would require lug-centric mounting where originals were hub-centric.

Second problem is the center hole size. Wheel center hole is way too big to fit the flange where the original wheel fits (hubcentric). Maybe the wheels can be machined out to fit around the whole hub and against the flange, converting them back to hub-centric?

So, that's the intro, and a warning that I will be asking a lot of questions.

Bob

[HaffyHunter]

Hi Bob,
If the rims you found for your Haffy are for Fiat they will have the correct bolt pattern of 4x98mm. If they are a cast aluminum or magnesium wheel then you will need a set of custom lug nuts to fit the Haffy. Rick Frederick in California has come up with a design that works and has generated a CAD drawing that you can take to a machinist to have the nuts made or you can make them yourself if your have a machine lathe.

The wheel's centre hole size makes me suspect that these may not be from a Fiat in which case the bolt holes would likely be the more commonly found 4x100mm which is not correct for your Haffy. You should check this carefully as it's an easy mistake to make and can do considerable damage to the Haffy hub and brake drum (as well as being unsafe).

Cheers,
Steve

[heinkeljb]

If I am reading the O/P correctly, this Haflinger is not heading for the open road just yet. In which case, the fact the wheels do not fit 100% does not really matter. If the hub centre hole on the wheel rim is bigger than the corresponding part on the hub, you can buy converting rings from a good car accessory shop. The nuts as long as they do not "actually" go though the holes will hold the wheels on well enough for the Haflinger to be pushed back and forth, loaded, unloaded etc.

Good luck with the move Bob.

John

[Tennmogger]

The good news is that the four original wheels have been found! The Hafi will be transported with those wheels (no tires) allowing me to load the Hafi. For use on the farm and trails, the original 12" wheels will be used with some DOT utility vehicle tires.

As for the 13" aluminum wheels, the bolt circle did measure to be 98mm so the bolt pattern is good! The center hole is too big, 70 cm approx, compared to needed 58.5 mm (measured, can anyone confirm?) so centering rings will be needed. With road tires already mounted on these wheels, they can be used to dress up the Haflinger to 'go to town', or longer trips to the Smokys.

The wheel studs do not protrude through the center disc of the AL wheels so those can't be used with original nuts, even for temporary transport.

Thanks for the suggestions!

I tried to add some pictures on my earlier post. The pictures seemed to upload ok but then did not attach. When I get the process figured out I'll add pictures.

This '68 Haflinger came from up in Michigan many years ago. It's relatively rust free but has it's share of dents and dings that will be taken out. Plan is to return it to it's original red color.

Bob

[heinkeljb]

Bob,

Have a look at this:-

http://thehaflinger.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=640

Hopefully it explains how to post pictures.

I would say it would be easier to find another set of wheels rather than have to buy centring rings and have nuts made - the centre is 58.*** so probably supposed to be 59.0mm.

I bought some 13" rims that were from a Fiat UNO and have had to attack the centre hole to make it a fraction bigger so they do not bind on the hub.

John

[Tennmogger]

Thanks John, will try again with pictures.

Having found the original wheels, problem solved. The Hafi will need some off-road tires for the farm. The Al wheels have street tires which would not even be good for wet grass.

Wheelless.jpg (221.13 KiB) Viewed 3222 times

[walderse]

Bob,
Congratulations on locating the original rims.
Both 6x12 and 7x12 chevron tread tires will fit those rims without difficulty. Ryan Gerrish was able to get into all sorts of mischief with the 7x12 tires on his Haflinger.

Take care.

Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com

[HaffyHunter]

Plan is to return it to it's original red color.

Hi Bob,
That's a great looking Haf you found for yourself! It's great to hear that you plan to restore it to its original condition. For your reference the factory Red (Rot) color is VW/Audi paint code L36Q.
Cheers,
Steve

[AngelPantoja]

They told me that original red color is RAL 3000...

[HaffyHunter]

They told me that original red color is RAL 3000...

RAL3000 (sometimes called Flame Red) is close but just a bit too deep in red tone. Most automotive paint systems do not work in the RAL or Pantone color palettes although they can often approximate them if provided with a color swatch. It's more accurate to use the automobile manufacturer's code.

The VW/Audi code L36Q (named Rot...German for Red) is correct for North American Haflingers.

Cheers,
Steve

[cascade.king]

Most good paint shops (like mine) would use an imaging system on a color chip (Pantone swatch works fine) if its single stage. A quick batch of let-down cards would seal the deal. We use PPG Aquabase Plus.. But most of the tints can be converted to an Imron polyurethane if required. All the mixes are shared on the PPG database, so if we painted a good match, the mix would be available to all.

[Tennmogger]

More progress made, loaded for trip home. First, build a rail road

rr track to truck.jpg (188.37 KiB) Viewed 3134 times

Use the new winch to load with one finger

up ramp.jpg (194.58 KiB) Viewed 3134 times

and tie it all down. No, it's not tied down yet....just getting started.

on truck.jpg (186.96 KiB) Viewed 3134 times

The Haflinger had to be loaded in the forward position so there is clearance with the travel trailer towed behind.

Got some new tires and wheels, too! Marc at 'Little Tires and Wheels' in Denver is a great source. (25" Kenda Bounty Hunter radials)

Bob

[cascade.king]

Are Kenda Bounty Hunters load rated high enough for a Haflinger?

[heinkeljb]

That's a nice narrow gauge railway line you have there! Did you put the windscreen down for the journey? The ramp you built in the pickup bed is what I had envisaged for Mike when he had to collect his. Looking at the cross section of the timber, I think you built a real HEAVY DUTY version and could probably have used thinner stuff with out having issues.

At least now you have a system to be able to transport it even after you finish fixing it.

John

[Tennmogger]

Made the 1400 mile trip with no problems with the pickup or Haflinger assembly. Yep, the wooden ramp is very heavy to withstand any shock loads (2x8 and 2 x 10 with lots of 3-1/2" deck screws). Nothing moved at all on the trip and you all know how bad the Interstate is in some places. The travel trailer started popping the original 8 yo chinese tires however. One had never been on the ground, still had sprues, and lasted 100 miles. If you have chinese tires on anything I suggest replacing them asap.

Yes, the ATV tires have high enough weight rating for farm use (or trail). I have no intention to drive highways with these tires. That's what the alloy wheels and road tires are for. The original wheels are not part of the immediate plan so will be stored away for future use.

Sitting at this angle in the pickup, the transmission is leaking/pouring out lube. So far I have not been able to see where the lube is leaking out. Any suspected places to look?

Thanks,

Bob

[heinkeljb]

If you are sure it is transmission oil , then the most likely place(s) are the universal joint rubbers on the inboard end of the rear drive shafts. (that is it the rear that is leaking) Equally similar place(s) on the front differential can leak.
You could also have leaks from the hubs them selves as they have oil in them!
Or ... don't you just love the hedging of bets on any diagnostic work over the internet!

It could be actual engine oil, seal behind the bottom pulley, oil drain tubes from the cylinder heads to the crank cases, governor, even the oil bath air filter could all leak oil.

So really, the only way to find out is to clean all the spilt oil off the outside and then either put it back up on the truck and watch for leaks, or wait until you get round to checking the engine oil level and running it. Or checking gearbox / diff's oil levels and seeing if they leak when you go for a drive.

Are you one to fix it just enough to make it work or are you just going to strip it and start from scratch?

John

[Tennmogger]

...chop....

Are you one to fix it just enough to make it work or are you just going to strip it and start from scratch?

John

Ha ha. John, I'm probably going to fix the obvious problems and drive it. Some dents and dings will be fixed as I get to them. After a few months of evaluation I do intend to pull the cab off and clean, repaint, and repair any mechanical problems. Any seal and boot problems will be taken care of soon. This assumes the engine and transmission are mechanically sound, of course. I have so many projects running right now that take priority (including work underway on 3 Unimogs).

Thanks for the suggestions of where leaks might be. The leaking juice is definitely gear oil. It has that viscosity and smell. BTW, there were no leaks under where the Hafi sat on a concrete slab for many years. It only leaked when elevated at 30 + deg.

Bob

[Tennmogger]

The hafi is getting a little attention as time permits.

One goal (suggested by a multi-Haflinger owner) is replacement of M10 wheel bolts with M12 studs to allow the use of different wheels. I have pressed out the old bolts and am ready to drill the required 15.5mm holes to mate the larger bolts. A couple of possible 'got-ya's' come to mind. Looks like the heads will have to be thinned to pass one part of the brake assembly, the 'pointy thing' hanging down at the bottom, over the wheel cylinders. What is this pointer for? (remember I have never seen Haflinger brakes while installed). It is easily bent backward slightly to give bolt head clearance, too.

Second: Installing the new lug bolts might require more spacing behind the flange than is available. Has anyone done this installation without disassembly of the hub? I can always taper the end of the bolt if needed.

I have attached pictures of the press I made to punch out the studs without any hammering.

Thanks for suggestions,

Bob

[AustHaflinger]

What wheels are thinking of using that require larger studs? I have 14" Fiat wheels (and some not yet used 13" Alfa Romero wheels) and both fit using the standard studs - though I have just noticed that I should make up some hub rings for the 14" so the weight of the vehicle is taken by the hub and not the studs.

Cheers

Garry

[Markus]

I'm not sure what you will achieve with the M12 studs. The PCD will remain the same...

I personally believe the rims should be modified to match the Haflinger and not the other way round.