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 Post subject: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:27 am 
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For those who don't know my Haffie has a big bore kit, 14" wheels and 70kph hub gears. In that configuration it can easily exceed redline in top gear. has a top speed of about 85kph (too many revs) and was capable of driving around in most circumstances in top gear including up moderate hills. However it also had a growl from the front end and there was a rattle from the gearbox when the clutch was out in neutral.

It would cruise quite happily at 70 kph but revs were up around 4300 which is a bit much for extended use so I thought I would install 75kph hub gears and hopefully reduce revs to 4000 or below.

So the hub gears are now in, the front diff has been rebuilt, and the Haffie is now back on the road. Wouldn't start at first but seemed to be a spark plug issue that was soon fixed.

I took it on a 25km drive yesterday and performance was somewhat disappointing, just seemed to lack the zoom factor and felt retarded by something. When I got it home the I found one of the back wheels seems very tight to turn even though the adjusters were backed off - I had put the wrong drum on the wheel and after swapping the two rear drums around all was ok.

70kph at 3900rpm was achieved so a good result as far as that was concerned.

I went for a 40kph drive today and again I was again disappointed by the performance - it would not pull more than 3500rpm in top gear on the level but would go up to 4500rpm when going downhill - no binding brakes this time so I am assuming I have an engine tuning issue as the engine got worse as the drive went on. After I got back home I started up again and the engine ran very badly and took some time to clear itself and run OK. Also the rattle from the gearbox now seems very much worse. Nothing when in neutral with the clutch depressed but with it out very rattly - nothing obvious when on the road.

So being laid up has somehow impacted the engine tuning and the gearbox noise yet nothing in this area has been touched. So this week is looking at engine tuning.

I might just get the guy who did the tuning early in the year to have another go.

Cheers

Garry

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:56 am 
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Gary,

might be worth your while to clean the four carb jets you can get at under the little square cover on the side of the carb.

They do seem to be susceptible to blockages in those. I have a can of compressed air which I use to blow through them.

If you have a timing light, maybe a quick check on ignition timing might be worth while. Points can and do wear / move for no apparent reason.

There is another point which you might be over looking:-

Original setup would have been 643cc / 12 inch tyres = 70kph hubs.
Then changed to big bore kit / 14 inch tyres = 70kph hubs, this would mean the big bore kit with more power turning 70kph hub providing more acceleration, adding 14inch tyres might have slowed acceleration slightly and increased top speed slightly.
Now changed to big bore kit / 14 inch tyres = 75kph hubs, This could have put you back to something more on par with the original setup i.e. a Hafi with not a lot of extra power for acceleration but with a higher top speed when you finally get there.

Could also be that things need to "bed in" a bit before working correctly. You have after all, changed a number of bearings and new gears which might not be meshing quite as nicely as they could.

Don't forget to change the oil in the hubs soon!

John

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:33 am 
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Thanks John - Great minds think alike - on the carb I have an inline filter so while it is unlikely stuff will get through it could have so I will check those jets. Also was thinking that the floats might have gone - they fell apart last year and were glued back together with a special fuel resistant plastic glue so I might just check them as well.

Yes - I will check the ignition system and the tappets - the last time I had poor power the tappets had closed up and a valve was staying open a bit.

I agree about the reduction in pull with the higher hub gears and I was expecting this but the same lack of urge applies in the lower gears as well. Fourth gear is more flexible than it was previously (too low before) but is still not pulling well.

The casting of the hub gears was not quite as well as I hoped so there will be a bedding in period. After the first run I checked all oil levels and two of the hubs had very fine metal particles in them. I changed one lot of oil as it was the colour of grey Hammerite paint with a distinct metallic content - I will check these regularly and change the oil as needed until the gears have bedded in.

Garry

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:53 pm 
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Retorqued the heads, reset the tappets, cleaned and reset the points - a little pitted after not much use so maybe a condenser not up to scratch (what other vehicle does the condenser fit). Checked compression - 150psi both sides (was 165 last time I checked but is likely to be a measuring issue). Haven't done the timing yet as I need to look at the carby.

As suggested by John I will pull the main jets tomorrow and clean. The cover leaked a little last time I had it off so I used some sealant and some may now be blocking a jet so I will clean.

I took off the top of the carb to check the floats - one is OK but the other one has a ml or two of fluid inside so is leaking. I will get some plastic tank repairer to reseal but I really would like to get some new floats.

Does anyone know where to get them for the Zenith carb for a fair price. There are some on ebay at the moment but the cost is over the top and shipping is a bit much. I did try Technik Haflinger in the past but they did not have any.

So - information on the condenser and the carby floats would be good.

Thanks

Garry

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:22 pm 
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Do you not have wrecking yards in Australia? Same carb used on many early Mercedes cars.
Too bad you're not near me in sunny So Ca. I have at least a dozen new floats($25 ea US), but postage/duty is usually outrageous to Aus.
You can PM me If you are interested and know an affordable way to ship.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:04 am 
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Thanks Jim - no Merc wreckers in my area but I did try a Merc independant repairer and seller of older parts - he didn't have any - where I live it is a bit of a backwater as far as cars are concerned.

By the way do you sell the floats individually or by the pair?

Cheers

Garry

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:18 am 
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Complete brand new assembly, just drop it in.

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:06 am 
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Thanks Jim - PM sent

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:40 am 
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My engine runs but has trouble idling where it idled fine previously. Cleaned up the carby so now looking at timing.

First issue - I have two timing marks on the crankshaft pully - see top left and top right in the pic
Image

The one on the left is deeper and has two smaller marks either side where the one on the right is a single mark. Given how close they are, without taking off rocker covers etc I don't see how to work out which is the correct mark - I assume it is then left mark but I am not sure. In either case the ignition was well advanced.

So which mark should be the correct one??

Also when doing the timimg the engine would rev OK and the start to die but also at the same time the strobe light would stop flashing but when revs would pic up the strobe would come back on - so ignition power is being lost. I out the strobe light on the main HT lead and the same is happening so is not in the spark plug leads.

I have bought a new coil and HT lead so will be put them in and see what happens. The points are relatively new but not sure on the condenser but the Bosch number is not in our Aussie Bosch catalogue so I cannot even cross reference for a different brand.

So what timimg mark should I be using??

Cheers

Garry

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:18 am 
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Hi Gary,

The correct one to use would be the deep one on the left. Easy enough to check. Take right hand spark plug out, turn engine over clockwise on the crank pulley, when you get compression on the lefthand cylinder. Take out LH spark plug, use a piece of wire or something and get the piston to TDC. The deep timing mark should be the one lining up with the mark on the Dynastart fan housing.

You can then set your points up, by turning the crank pulley either way until you get maximum gap. Just remember which way you turned the pulley, so you can then go back to TDC. Now you need to turn the pulley ANTICLOCK wise until the timing mark on the pulley is under your tipex'ed white mark. Adjust your distributor so the points are just opening - use a multimeter or a bulb and battery.
Tighten things up. Put the cap back on and try starting.

If I remember correctly, the strobe light you have is the same as the one I have. If that is the case, clip the HT lead lead sensor on cylinder No1 HT lead. You should now get your static line up of deep mark and white line. As you increase the revs the two marks will move apart. If you now use the arrows on the strobe unit you can make the two marks line up again. Looking at the figures on the strobe unit it will tell you how many degrees of advance that is. Does this match what you are expecting?

Losing the HT pulse will be down to one of 4 things - 1) Are you battery connections good, no loose connections in the ignition circuit. 2) The coil is faulty. 3) The condenser is faulty. 4) The points faces are not clean and flat.

Any condenser you can find which you can make fit will work... I.E> if you can get the wire into the distributor and connected to the points in the space available and case connected to earth will work.

John

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:05 pm 
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Some fun and games - pending the brains trust responding I assumed it was to top left mark.

I put the new lead and coil in but the strobe light would not work - changed strobe light and it would still not work :( but would sometimes work on No 2 cylinder so I got the timing right but the engine was not idling well - clearly No 1 cylinder was not firing.

Very confusing - so I pulled the dissy out, took the coil out and put in my old 123 electronic ignition and coil pack - while the dizzy map has issues at revs it did work before. I did put the electronic dissy in the wrong stop and when I fired the engine up there was a huge backfire - scared the poo poo out of me as it went bang when I was sitting next to the tail pipe.

I sorted the timing and the engine fired up but the timing light would still not work on No 1 cylinder even though the engine ran roughly. I tool a lead off my V12 Jag and replaced the No1 lead on the Haffie but still no joy.

Hmm everything either replaced or checked and no timing light - the only thing not checked was the plug - removed and worked. (these were new last week). On a whim I put in the old Iridium plugs that I used when I had the 123 ignition in previously and she fired up, idled well and the strobe light worked on No1 cylinder - so while the spark plugs which are less than a week old and only covered 65km were breaking down in the engine.

Time to put the old dizzy and coil back but I thought I would try something. The electronic coil pack is a wasted spark system, firing both spark plugs at the same time - in theory the points should be able to run the coil pack without the need for the cap or rotor.

The result (I don't know what Youtube did to the quality)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dZghmByvHU

I have changed the entire ignition system back and it now runs ok on both cylinders though it does look like a new condenser is needed.

So what would be killing the standard spark plugs - the Iridiums should hold up as they are better, stronger plug but we shall see.

Garry

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Your new spark plug are obviously faulty! They can and do break down internally or even just deep down where the central electrode joins the body of the spark plug. A spark done there is too far away from the petrol / air mixture to fire it correctly so it either does not run or runs badly.
I have killed spark plugs in the past just by dropping them! Makes a crack in the porcelain insulator then no spark across the electrodes.

Nice experiment with out the Dizzy cap, but looking at the sparks across the points, you condenser has passed it's best! As you have discovered, on a flat twin engine when one cylinder is a BDC the other is at TDC so as long as there is a spark and petrol / air mixture it will run. I can't say if it will run very well particularly at higher revs, but there is no reason why it won't!

I think the reason it did not run the strobe before is that the strobe is looking for a distinct pulse, when the spark jumps the gap. If you spark plug has a short inside, then the energy does not build it just travels round the circuit.

Glad you have worked out what was wrong!

John

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:18 am 
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Now back on the road - power is good, pulls well and will cruise at 70kph at 4000rpm and hold it. Top speed is about 2kph slower than what it was but revs still below redline which is what I wanted to achieve with the higher hub gears.

Idle is still not good so I will put it in the shop as soon as I am able to get the fine tuning sorted.

Cheers

garry

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:45 am 
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garrycol wrote:
Idle is still not good so I will put it in the shop as soon as I am able to get the fine tuning sorted.



The idle was crap so yesterday I reviewed the book to see how to do it properly. I pulled out the mixture idle screws and much to my surprise the tips were carboned up - not sure how that happens. I cleaned them up - squirted the holes with some petrol and blew it all out with compressed air. I put the screws back in all the way and in accordance with the book backed them off 1/2 a turn - I then adjusted the throttle idle screw so that revs were around 700rpm. The book then says to back off the mixture idle screws until max revs occur. I initially slowly backed off another half a turn as revs increased. I started to turn another 1/2 a turn but there was no change in revs until the end where it started to drop off - so I returned the position to a total of 1 full turn back where max revs was achieved.

I then adjusted idle back to 750revs on the throttle idle screw and idle is perfect - nice and smooth and no hunting.

I find it amazing how much the engine went out of tune just sitting around for 6 weeks - obviously needs to be driven :)

I drove it to my Landrover Club meeting last night in the thunderstorms and it performed faultlessly :) . I will save some money and not send it into the shop.

Oh - while doing this I noticed the oil pressure gauge was not reading much oil pressure and the oil pressure light was on at idle - mine goes off normally as soon as the engine is cranked. I had a similar issue in an engine I built years ago and it was the excess sealant etc from building the engine that caused a blockage - so I dropped the oil, oil filter and pulled the adapter for the pressure switch and gauge - blew the lot out with compressed air and reassembled with a new filter and oil and all is well - a small piece of silicon sealant must have made its way into the fitting.

Cheers

Garry

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:09 am 
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Location: Launceston Tasmania AUS,
the other possibilities are sealant in the mushroom valves . in the oil pump .
it is recommended to reface and re seat these when rebuilding .

the best sealant . and the one I used was Suzuki Sildar .
smells like model aircraft glue but is silver in colour .
bloody brilliant stuff .

kerry

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:53 am 
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Hi Gary,

Sounds normal.. the carbs are funny things to setup. Part of the problem is that they are 40 years old now and are worn in all sorts of places which are not accessible or replaceable - think grand canyon - carved by water, so petrol over a shorter time scale and smaller scale will still wear things away!
Carbon on the idle jets is due to backfires - flame come back up the inlet manifold. inlet valve not closing properly, bad ignition timing etc.

The setting of the idle speed via the idle jets and throttle stop is something which takes time, best done when hot, but then when the engine is cold the revs are probably to low, so there is a compromise that needs to be achieved between the two. Do the things you have mentioned in your post above another couple of times , particularly after you have been driving for a long time, then you know that every single part of the engine is as hot as it is going to get! You might also want to do the task in Summer and again in wither as the overall temperature of the engine will change depending on how extreme the differences are where you live between summer and winter.

Might pay you to do yet another oil change and take out the oil strainer plate on the sump as well this time.

John

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:30 am 
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I agree .
the biggest difference I have done and made a lot of difference is to machine the carby body ,
fit a bush for the main shaft .
when its worn it allows a lot of variations , air ingress . and , you get the idea .
it is worth it if you have some one that can do it .

kerry

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:18 am 
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Thanks for that advice - great stuff.

The carby was fully rebuilt this time last year so and I have only covered about 1200km since then - I am just amazed how everything can get out of tune so quick.

Cheers

Garry

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 Post subject: Re: The Aftermath
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:32 pm 
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Depending on which Carb you have, the idle jets don't go into the main Carb body, but into the iron block under the Carb. That makes facing the tapered hole at the end more difficult and the manual even states that you shouldn't wind the screws right down to the end. Maybe just a pair of new screws would help sort things as the tapers would not have any lip(s) on them.

I think the real reason things go out of tune so quickly when you don't use the vehicle is the fuel gumming up the smaller holes, then you think something has gone wrong and start adjusting things. Then when the gum gets cleared with use, all your adjustments are wrong again. One of the reasons as to why I said you would probably need to fiddle with the Carb settings a couple of times before you you have got the right compromise.

New engines tend to come with a threaded hole on inlet manifold and on the exhaust so you can fit sensors that can make adjustments for you to keep the mixture correct. Haflinger's don't have that sort of engine management, they have "humans" to do that for them! Every week! Every Month! Every 1200 miles! :lol: :lol: :lol: :ugeek:

John

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