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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:32 am 
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Does anyone know how many different kind of rear wheel brake cylinders were produced for the Haflinger? My Haflinger Pathfinder has a very leaky right rear unit, so in in the market..

I keep seeing ads for rear units on Bonanza.Com and EBay that list remanufactured Haflinger 7/8" 22.22mm units. When I look at the part list from Haflinger Technik, they list rebuild kits for "19mm" and "22mm" cylinders.

Does anyone know the size I should be looking for?

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:28 am 
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The aftermarket ones are fine, get 4 of the 22.22mm(7/8") use them on all 4 wheels for increased stopping power.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:56 am 
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From what I can tell there were two sizes of wheel brake cylinders fitted, 19mm and 22mm.

As suggested above, if you have one leaky one, the others are probably not far behind in terms of wear so as you have the brake system open you might as well replace all 4 with the same size.

In theory you could put 19mm ones on the rear and 22mm ones on the front as there is no brake bias valve fitted as standard it would even out the braking forces as the front brake obviously apply more of the braking force than the rear. I have 22mm ones all round and if I hit the brake hard I can lock up the rears and "fish tail" all over the place!

John

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:54 am 
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I did a "search" for 'brake wheel cylinder' and of course like most forum search function said the terms were too generic and refused to search - to get it to search I put a + in front of each word and the same - no luck - so put brackets around the three words and again no luck - like all forums the search function is crap - google works better.

Any way - I then did a manual trawl of the forum and found this thread.

I have cleaned up the garage and I can not fit it inside and it has been parked there. I moved it out this afternoon to tow the e-type into a tight spot (haffies do not like towing full size cars) and when I went into the garage I spotted a big oil stain where the rear wheel was - hmmm brake fluid. The reservoir was also about empty. I put some more fluid in to save having to bleed the entire system but clearly I have a shot passenger rear wheel cylinder.

I see plenty on ebay but they are not local and I want to just go to the brake shop to buy one. They will not have a Haflinger listing, so what common car (VW?) wheel cylinder is the same?

I know it has been discussed on here but I cannot find it.

Thanks

Grumpy Garry

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:02 am 
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Anyone got an answer?? Any freely available alternatives?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:32 am 
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Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK
Sorry Gary,

When I replaced the wheel cylinders on Lurch, I got replacements from Haflinger Technik. I don't know of any other wheel cylinder which has the slot required for the brake shoe.

Quite likely to be an early VW cylinder, but without taking the old one with you to compare against one you can get off the shelf, I am not much help on this!

John

p.s.

Found this on StuartR's excel spreadsheet:-

TEVES REAR WHEEL CYLINDER 15.87mm 7 10/1 "AUDI VW 803 611 051
NSU 67 57 00 518
DAF 702547770-4
VOLVO 4 450 510
VOLVO 4 540 510-7"
TEVES FRONT WHEEL CYLINDER 22.2mm 7 10/2 ATLAS WEYHAUSEN 0 460 8911

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:15 am 
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G,,day as has been mentioned , large diameter in the front .
small in the rear .
or you will suffer some nasty things when empty .
this will present itself as the back end passing the front end .
not nice unless you want to do it as in a handbrake turn . ala rally car .

kerry

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:30 pm 
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I run large all around with no issues at all

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:26 pm 
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Hello,

I'd be hesitant to fit same size cylinders on all wheels, since overbraking of the rear wheels can get you in serious troubles.
A better option might be to fit the longer brake pedal (standard on LWBs and all Italian models).


Cheers, C.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:36 am 
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I always put large 22mm (front) wheel cylinders on all 4 wheels when they are available. Doing this gives superior brake performance and less pedal effort.
It's just a good option. I also use a larger bore early VW master cylinder. It really helps when I tow my trailer(1100lbs loaded) to the dump with the Haflinger :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:38 am 
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Well I enquired at local so called brake experts and all i got was a blank look and offers to rebuild my old one.

So tonite I will be looking for "buy it now"s on the internet.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:03 am 
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I decided to pull the brake cylinder out this morning and it was definitely leaking but the bore looked fine - it is the 15.87mm size. I also remembered that there is a small independent brake shop in Canberra's satellite city across the border (Queanbeyan).

So I went over there and he knew all about them and also said an early Porsche was also compatible - he also cautioned about buying new "knockoffs" as their metal was porous.

He said mine had been stainless sleeved and was fine so he put a hone through to take off a little glazing. He put in a new set of rubbers and for the equivalent £5 I was on my way.

So it will go back in tomorrow.

On reading the above comments on using bigger wheel cylinders I am not sure of some of the logic. I agree with Jim that putting in the bigger wheel cylinders with a larger capacity master cylinder is the way to go for better brakes - having said that my brakes with the standard master and standard wheel cylinders brakes pretty well.

What I don't understand is the comments that just increasing the size of the brake cylinders by themselves improves braking. Assuming that Steyr correctly matched the master and the cylinders correctly then in theory with linings/drums down to minimum tolerances, the full stroke of the master will result in full stroke of the wheel cylinders so the brakes still work. Now bring in larger wheel cylinders with larger volume, at full stroke of the standard master cylinder, the pistons in the wheel cylinder will not as move as far as the smaller cylinders so the brakes will not work as well.

Now I agree with a bigger master cylinder or new shoes and drums there will be advantage with bigger wheel cylinder but with a standard master cylinder and brakes that are adjusted up but a bit worn I do not see how larger wheel cylinders will improve braking by themselves.

Garry

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Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:31 pm 
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I too have the larger VW master if you were asking about my setup, which is really Jim's setup since he did the work ;)
Cheers,
Dan

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:16 pm 
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Simple formula for hydraulics, P(pressure) over A(area) = F(force).
The larger set up allows for lower pedal effort resulting in improved holding on inclines when backing down. Been running this config for 6+ years.
There are no adverse effects. Glad you got your cylinder repaired. Go have some fun now!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:52 am 
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Wheel cylinder is back in - all seems fine.

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Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:47 am 
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Location: Launceston Tasmania AUS,
i must ad .
to all that have big cylinders in the rear .

go for a drive with no load , and do a panic brake . i mean jump on the brake pedal . as in avoiding a crash .
try this on dry bitumen road , wet bitumen road . and gravel road .
i am meaning brake lock up .
please do this with no other traffic around .

i look forward to honest results ,
not backing pressure off the pedal when it starts to lock up . or goes wrong . lock them up as if you are about to hit a brick wall .

i have a lot of experience building rally cars , driving them as well . also with bias bar brakes . as well as hydraulic bias adjusters .


i do not mean this sarcastically , i am saying it from experience .
kerry

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:40 pm 
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No adverse effects. Tracks straight, stops fine. These are not front heavy like rally cars.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:57 am 
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Goatwerks wrote:
These are not front heavy like rally cars.


They are when I sit in the front :shock:

With standard size wheel cylinder all around my rear brakes do lock up just before the fronts (confirmed this on my test run yesterday). Not an issue on dry bitumen and dirt but could be on wet smooth tarmac.

However the same applies to all drum braked vehicles so is something to be aware of but not concerned.

My Haffie brakes fine but pedal pressure is getting a bit high - the issue is not so much locking up rear wheels but getting the adjusters balanced so the vehicle pulls up straight - not hard to do but does require regular adjustment - this is where disk brakes come into their own.

I might source some new "big" wheel cylinders and a VW master for a future brake upgrade.

Garry

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Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:14 am 
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I went 4wding a few months back up in the snow and has to drive through some deep muddy water - brakes still worked OK but the front right started issuing a loud squeal when heavy braking from about 30kph.

I took all the drums off and there was no dirt in any off them so I just cleaned them up and put them back. Because the front right was squealing I roughened the shoes and the brake drum with sandpaper and when they went back in the noise was gone but now that they have smoothened off the loud annoying squeal is back.

So I have decided to overhaul the brakes - I will get the drums lightly skimmed, and the shoes relined. I am going to also get new wheel cylinders. I have reviewed the above comments on what sizes etc and have decided that based on my own experiences in emergency braking I will go the 22mm on the front and 19mm on the rear.

These will have to be VW so does anyone have the VW model and/or part numbers for the 22mm and 19mm brake cylinders?

Oh - just as a thought bubble (or brain fart) - has anyone put disk brakes on the front??

Thanks

Garry

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Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:40 am 
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I know of a guy in the UK, Owns the 6 wheel Haflinger, who has done a disc brake conversion for the front on it. I know he also made a kit for another guy - so that make at least 2 Haflinger's with front disc brakes.
It required sacrificing a couple of front hubs os might be a "frowned upon" conversion if lots of people do it! What is need is someone make new purpose designed front hubs.

If those are made, they could take the opportunity to change the way the play in the front hubs dealt with!

John

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