Wheel Cylinders

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Bigdougal
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 3:19 pm
Location: Lot et Garonne, France

Wheel Cylinders

Post by Bigdougal »

Morning all
Can anyone give me an estimate of the time needed to change all 4 wheel cylinders, and can it be done without fully removing the brake shoes?

Thanks
Cheers

Doug Hart

1972 AP 700
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heinkeljb
Posts: 2754
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK

Re: Wheel Cylinders

Post by heinkeljb »

Hi Doug,

How long is your piece of string? You answer depends on several things like how rusted all the bolts are.

1: Loosen wheel stud nuts, Jack up one corner of Haflinger ~ 2/3 minutes
2: Remove wheel, brake drum ~ 1/ 2 minutes
3: Undo brake banjo (Assuming you are not worried about losing brake fluid) ~ 1 minute, Up to several if the thing won't undo!
3: Undo the top hat / spring / "T" bar system the holds the brake shoes against the brake face plate. ~ 1 minute (If you know how this bit works)
4: Pull brake shoes away from brake face plate and out of Wheel cylinder (both sides) ~ 1 minute the first one, quicker when you know how it's done
5: undo 2 small bolts holding wheel cylinder to brake face plate ~ 1 minute (again more if they won't come undone)!


So given that everything comes undone easily and you know exactly what you need to do at each stage, it could take you less than 10 minutes from loosening the wheel nuts to holding the wheel cylinder in your hand - BUT - it could take you a lot longer if you get stubborn fastenings.

The only "difficult" bit with removing the brake shoes completely is the little top spring which comes in from behind the brake shoe. In fact there is even mention of how you deal with this in the repair manual or was it the operators handbook? Anyway, a description of the "trick" is in one of the earlier posts on here dealing with brake shoes etc. If I get a chance I see if I can find the thread.

Basically, you make yourself a tool out of something like welding wire. make a hook on the end (hook part ~ 1.5 to 2 mm long. File it on one side so that it will fit through the top hole where the spring sits. You put the hook though the hole from the outside, hook the end of the spring and in one fluid movement, you pull the end of the spring back through the hole and twist your hook so the end of the spring flies off and hooks the brake shoe.

I have threatened to do a little video of this next time I take off the brake hubs, which if you have been following is likely to be quite soon as I really must deal with the oil leak on the front drive shaft. (just have to remember to have the camera and another body available)

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Yakov
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:50 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Wheel Cylinders

Post by Yakov »

I did this job last year on a Haflinger that had no functioning brake system in living memory, and in my case a few things took a lot longer than normally necessary, so the following experience may not apply to you and merely serves as an example of what surprises could take more time.

For example, the normally simple procedure of taking the brake drums off without damaging them took a long time, as well as refitting the brake shoes (even after reading the repair manual and associated threads on the forum. To add to the frustration, for some reason, some shoes didnt want to fit into the cylinders right away... Another problem I had was deposits in the 'banjo' fittings that the lines screwed in to, so that took cleaning. Also, my flex lines were so old they had sealed themselves shut and nothing would open them up, even thought from the outside they looked good, so after everything was done, I had to run around town looking for flex lines (not easy to find).
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heinkeljb
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK

Re: Wheel Cylinders

Post by heinkeljb »

Yakov,

I am sure that at least one of your brake shoe top springs went on real easy - probably the very last one! :lol: :lol:
I also had flexible hoses which turned into one way valves although they looked good on the outside!

I know what it's like and hope I have give the best case , but also an indication of how badly even the best laid plans of mice and men can go wrong!

When I first started taking the front hubs off Lurch, I had similar problems, the drums would not come off nicely. Basically, the ridge that forms at the edge of the brake shoes was catching the drum. one trick is to release the banjo going into the wheel cylinder, then to use a rubber mallet to tap all the way round the hub, whilst rotating it. Eventually, the springs on the brake shoes will pull the brake shoes in enough to allow you to rotate the hub off. You could spend an hour or more doing this, so a minimum time for replacing a wheel cylinder from start to finish is likely to be absolute minimum 15 minutes (probably on a brand new system which has only just been put together), to several hours for one cylinder!

Personally, I would just say, it takes as long as it takes, but I I had a dead line then probably I would like a day to change all four wheel cylinders.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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AustHaflinger
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Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Wheel Cylinders

Post by AustHaflinger »

As others have said - how long is a piece of string - if you current wheel cylinders are not corroded on and nothing goes wrong - about 10 minutes to get jack up and remove wheels, 10 minutes to remove each wheel cylinder, and about the same time to put the new ones in. If you have a friend to help about 30 minutes to bleed brakes - no help then it will take ages. 20 minutes to put wheels back on and lower vehicle.

So about 2 1/2 hours with a coffee if nothing goes wrong - but of course it will. If you are careful the pads do not need to come off but I bet some will come off. Oh and the ends of the pads can damage the cylinder rubber boots so have a couple as spares to put on.

Garry
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