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 Post subject: Handbrake Lever Position
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:04 am 
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The handbrake lever in the cabin is another gem of design as it is just an inch or so too long and interferes with the gear lever when pulled up. In its current position it aligns exactly where 1st gear is - I have bent it to the left a couple of times but using the handbrake over a period of time it slowly bends back to the central position. Likewise I have bent it to the right so it sits between 1st and 3rd but over time it migrates back to behind 1st - now with the amount of bending it has done there is a chance of the handbrake lever breaking where the little indents are behind where you hand grabs it.

Later I will take the whole lever out and see if I can shorten it so the gear lever and handbrake lever do not impact but I am going to strengthen it with a - so where does your handbrake sit with respect to the gear lever? To the left of 1st, in line with 1st, between 1st and 3rd or else where?

Thanks

Garry

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:45 am 
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Mine is exactly the same as your Gary... Another "just because we can" idea rather than - what would work best here?
In line with 1st or Krawler if you prefer.

It even bends the rod underneath to suit it self.

John

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:09 pm 
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In normal driving it is not such an issue as I guess like most people I only use 2nd to 5th - essentially as a 4 speed box. The main issue comes when I am out 4wding where I tend to be in 2nd but for the tight bits I need to go back to 1st - often quickly to not lose momentum and of course the gear lever hits the hand brake lever so mucking up the gear change - as if it is not already hard enough to get the gear lever through its narrow slot into 1st.

Glad it is not just me with this issue.

Cheers

Garry

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:20 pm 
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Hi Garry & John,

I read your posts in this topic and must say I am quite perplexed as to how you have this issue with the gear selector and hand brake lever interfering. I have never encountered this with any Haflinger. As you can see in this photo of my truck with the gear selector in 1st there is a good 3 inches of clearance between the the gear lever and the hand brake. Is your condition something that is unique to right hand drive (the wrong side, lol) Haflingers only?

Steve


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:28 am 
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It looks as if you have a shorter hand brake lever (or you are in neutral and not actually in first) - here is my gear lever in 1st and you can see it touches the hand brake lever.

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Garry

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:53 am 
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I can't check mine now, but I have no recollections of ever thinking that my handbrake lever gets in the way of the gearstick either. Strange.

That said, I wonder if the lever is the same as the one used in the Fiat 500, and was never actually designed for the Haflinger?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:49 am 
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Hi Garry,

No my truck is definitely in 1st gear in my photo. I think Julian has the best explanation in that you have the lever from a Fiat 500 in your Haf. I would look at replacing the lever with the correct model or shortening the current lever if I had this problem in my truck.

Steve


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Hmmm why would I have a lever from a Fiat 500, a car that is probably even rarer here than a Haflinger? My lever is original as assembled in Melbourne so is a Haflinger lever. I suspect that it is supposed to be bent to the left so it is in line with reverse, and I have bend mine to that position but with use it seems to migrate back to behind 1st. John seems to have the same issue as I do.

I agree that shortening the lever is probably the best option if it is possible.

Cheers

Garry

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Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Sorry, my words weren't very clear. What I meant was maybe ALL Haflinger handbrake levers were "borrowed" from the 500, and so may not have actually been designed to be a better length? Also, I now see why I don't have an issue on mine ... it only has 4 gears! :o

Which then brings me on to think that when it was originally fitted to the Haflinger the length was fine, and perhaps they never shortened it when they introduced the 5 speed Haf?

My 1972 5 speed is at my brothers at the moment, so can't check how that looks. But my 1962 Haflinger's handbrake measures 300 mm from the front end (excl. Button) to the rear "notch" on the top surface.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Looking at the Parts Manuals I see that there are some varying part numbers...

in one Manual (possibly June 1960?) it is 700.1.35.061.2
in the "Edition 1962" Manual the lever is 700.1.35.083.2
In the "5-1969" Manual the lever is 700.2.35.083.2

So there were (at least) three levers; the plunger rods are the same in all three books, so maybe it was a design change rather than a length change?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:48 pm 
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I'll take a picture of mine this evening and measure it as per Julian's post. Possibly it is down to the spacer(s) that are fitted in between the rubber disc bit that is at the gearbox tower end. I removed the spacer on mine when We were working on the gearbox / diff issue a couple of weekends. Ack. That moves the position. of the gear lever in the gate I. E the position of where the gear lever finds neutral. I now mine "used to" have the same problem as Gary's. It might not be an issue now - so When I get home I will do the above checks.

John

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Here are a couple more photos of my 1969's hand brake. It measures 300mm from end-to-end of the lever. With the gear selector in 1st and the brake handle raised there is approx. 90mm clearance between the selector knob and the tip of the brake lever. The clearance is only slightly less when the hand brake is at its lowest position. The hand brake is aligned slightly left of the gear selector but is of no consequence to clearance. This alignment is adjustable due to slotted mounting holes in the hand brake's bracket. When the gear selector is in 1st the selector shaft almost fully vertical and does not incline toward the hand brake.

Garry- Remember that the Haflinger and the Fiat/Puch 500 were built simultaneously on the same production line thus it would be quite easy to share similar components. The 500 used raised seats (unlike the Haflinger's on-the-floor seat) so it would be much better for the 500 operator to have a longer hand brake lever.

Steve


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:43 pm 
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These two google images show that the Fiat 500 had a very similar handbrake lever.

http://www.classic-car-magazine.co.uk/i ... r_view.JPG

http://www.pressland.co.uk/images/fiat500interior.jpg

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:06 pm 
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I have been out to take some photos of Lurch's handbrake and it is even worse than it was previously as far as I can tell. I haven't measured it, but I have no reason to believe it is any different in length from any of the others that have been posted.
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Handbrake down
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Handbrake up
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Definitely gets in the way!

From what has been said so far, my conclusion is that a: the position of the gear lever plays a big roll. Mainly down to the length of the gear linkage rod. This would cause the gear lever to be more vertical when in 1st (Krawler), 3rd, 5th (for those with that number of gears). B: if the handbrake mounting can be moved back and forth a small amount on slotted mounting points, that would also have an impact on the position of handbrake lever relative to the gear lever.

Gary, you could try loosening the handbrake mounting bolts, getting the handbrake at an angle and then tightening the mountings bolts back up. Having said that, I think just from the physical position of the person operating the handbrake, it will always be pulled to the drivers side (which ever side that is) and on a RHD vehicle, this will bring it in to conflict with the gear lever eventually.

I have been battling with the handbrake for the last couple of days, just to get it to work with some reasonable efficiency - so far it has defeated me and now it has thrown another issue at me! Great, so now I have to work out how to get round this issue as well!

Haflingers - don't you just love them!!

John

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Hi John,

Based on your photos I would have to say with all certainty that the interference issue is entirely relative to the gear selector adjustments and not at all related to your hand brake. I have had several Haflingers in my lifetime and none ever showed the position that yours has when in 1st (K) gear.
There can be many issues which impact gear selector position. Firstly, if the alloy gear selector plate has a piece broken out of it where either the top or bottom dust boot is attached then you can have over-travel of the gear lever. Secondly, there are shim plates that are placed in the coupling of the long rod that joins the gear selector to the top of the transaxle tower. There can be up to six shims in this coupling. Too many or too few shims impacts gear selection for either Reverse or 1st (K) position. A change of even one shim can make a significant difference. Thirdly, the gear selector rods in the top of the transaxle must be correctly aligned using the special service tool jig otherwise gear selector position will be adversely impacted. Lastly, the long rod that joins the gear selector to the top of the transaxle tower was produced in three different lengths (as was the central drive shaft tube) depending on the vintage and version of the Haflinger. It is possible to have an incorrect long selector rod installed in a SWB as there is only a very small difference in length between two of the versions but enough that applying or removing shims won't adequately compensate.

Steve


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:38 am 
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I have about 200 pics of various aspects of Haflingers - from these I have identified three different levers - there is the shorter one that you seem to have Steve, the longer one like John and I have fitted to 70s Haffies and one that might be an aftermarket mod that is bent and looks as if it is out of an 80s Honda.

There is a difference in the main tube of Steve's lever and John's and mine - on the last pic of Steves the black tube is 7" from the white button end to where the cylindrical tube changes to the floor mechanism where mine and Johns is 8 1/2" and there are other small differences - the white knob on ours sticks out further so making our levers about 2" longer than Steve's.

Earlier Haffies seem to have the short lever and later 70s versions seem to have the longer one. Also my pics show the lever bent to the left aligning with reverse rather than 1st so the two levers do not clash. On Johns pics you can see the indents where the tube joins the mechanism in the floor and this is where the lever bends sideways. Mine has been moved enough that it is clear the metal is now fatigued and is clearly ready to break. Mine needs bending back to the left and reinforced with some weld or metal tubing to keep it behind reverse and not 1st.

Julian I had a look at those levers in the Fiat 500 links you put up - they are the short levers as fitted to Steve's haffie - maybe Steve needs to get with the programme and fit a Haffie hand brake lever rather than a Fiat 500 lever - hehe :lol:

So thanks for the input - this shows to me there are two type of levers and it would seem the longer ones are fitted to the last lot of vehicles and the shorter ones to earlier ones - maybe road safety rules required the change - maybe to give more leverage.

Garry

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Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:39 am 
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Thanks Garry. I'm glad I'm not prone to developing a complex from the "size matters" comments and having a laugh at my short handle, lol.
I suspect that the longer brake lever was a case of whatever became available on the day of manufacture. Here is a late 1972 production Canadian model that clearly has no interference problem so I expect its hand brake is the shorter version.

Steve


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:09 am 
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Did I tell you that your steering wheel and accelerator pedal is on the wrong side :lol:

This is the third that I spotted - looks good
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Garry

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Hello to all,
I just checked the eight operational Haflingers currently on the farm. They range from a 1962 ex-Swiss Army to a 1973 703APK min age. There is also a Swiss trainer, both a Canadian NA spec and US NA spec truck, a later Swiss Bantam and two European spec trucks. all are LHD models. None of these show any interference whatsoever. All share the same length brake handles. I also have five additional handles assemblies in my parts drawer including an original NOS handle still in the bag. All of the handles both on the trucks and in the drawer are exactly the same length. Measuring along the top spine of the handle, I come up with 296mm.

John and Garry, I am very curious what the top spine measurements are on your trucks. If the handles are the same length as above, the only other explanation I can think of would be that the lever mounting hole in the floor of the tub is located further forward. Looking at this photo from Constantin's site, here is a RHD Haflinger with a brake handle similar to what I see on our LHD trucks on the farm.
http://tdc.haflinger-4wd.com/zubehoer/s ... height=776

Steve, All the trucks we have here appear to match what your experience has been.

Regarding the use of Puch 500 parts on the Haflinger, there is no doubt that the Haflinger got its start with the Puch 500 with a modified "Kübel" body. The fact that the three parts listings start with the 700 prefix tells me these are Haflinger-specific parts. That does not mean that they could not be a direct copy of the corresponding part from a Puch 500 whose parts typically start with the 500 prefix. In the Haflinger parts manual, one can find 500-series parts listed that were common to both vehicles. VW/Audi and Mercedes commonly do the same thing.

Very interesting dilemma but, John and Garry, the issue you face appears to be the exception rather than the rule.

Hope this helps.
Take care.

Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:18 am 
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walderse wrote:
Measuring along the top spine of the handle, I come up with 296mm.


Hi Jim - I measured mine - mine is 335mm along the top of the spine plus another 15mm for the white button.

walderse wrote:
Very interesting dilemma but, John and Garry, the issue you face appears to be the exception rather than the rule.


I am not so sure as I indicated above I see plenty like mine in the pics I have. Note the longer lever has the indented bit where the tube joins the rachet mechanism on the floor. The shorter lever does not have this.

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Cheers

garry

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Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)


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