wheel locked up

[ogdenenterprise]

I fitted the wheels with the new tyres fitted yesterday morning but when I fitted the drivers side rear wheel (rhd) I noticed it was seized and would not turn. On further investigation I found that the brake pad has detached from the brake shoe.
I removed both shoes ready for replacement or to have new pads fitted if shoes are not available.
When I was removing the shoes the top 2 springs fell out, but I notice they are different sizes as you can see in the photo.
I don't know which spring goes to which side, or is one of the spring wrong. I have looked in the parts book ( page 7 05/0 and it gives 4 different options
Can any one help me, as to what goes where. I realise they are handed but its the different diameter size which is confusing.

Dave

[ogdenenterprise]

This is the brake shoe, it looks very damp. I has not been in any water and I cant find any signs of a oil leak.

Dave

[jhon]

Hi Dave - I remember these springs but can't remember how and where they go, without stripping off my own wheel and drum, not much use to you I know. Anyway, if you haven't done this already, wanted to suggest taking the rear wheel off the other side and having a look - it should be a mirror image of what's needed.

Not sure why the brake shoe would be damp, condensation maybe? Is the other side the same?

Cheers, John

[heinkeljb]

Hi Dave,

Getting new brake liners should be something you can get done locally without having to resort to paying for (Exchange) brake shoes from Europe of else where.
As far as the springs go, until reading this post I hadn't actually realised there were supposed to be different springs in the two sides. I have only ever used the springs that were there already when I have had to do brake work.
Looking at the parts book and going by what might be just badly drawn pictures, I would say the thinner of the two springs goes on the rear most brake shoe and the thicker goes on the one nearest the front of the vehicle.

I can't actually think of any reason why the two sides would be different from each other or why there are two different diameters of spring. Unless it has to do with the thicker one are those that were fitted to later models or possibly to the Utility versions.
All those springs do is keep the brake shoe end on the pivot point. The spring at the bottom, retracts the brake shoe from the drum when you take your foot off the brake pedal.
The brake shoe is probably wet with brake fluid as if it were oil from the hub you would be able to smell it and being a thick oil, it would not have contaminated the whole brake shoe. It could possible be condensation, but if you left the brake shoe out in the sun, it would evaporate and then the shoe would look dry. Brake fluid will not evaporate in the same way.
If it is Brake fluid, then I would suggest you replace the wheel cylinder or at least replace the seals in it.

John

[ogdenenterprise]

I removed the the brake cylinder as well and took them to a local brake specialist. They said that the did not have any spares for the cylinder so I left the shoes with them and went to another place I know and got some replacement seals. The first one I tried I could not get over the lip and ended up splitting the seal. I have some pliers that has 3 prongs that open out when you squeeze the handles I am going back there this morning to ask them to fit the seals. Is there a special way/method to fit these seals on the pistons.


Dave

[ogdenenterprise]

I went to the supplier this morning, I asked him to fit the seals on the pistons but when he tried they split as well. He managed to find some that were ok.
I have now refitted the cylinder, brake pads and refitted the wheel, so now I only have to bleed the brakes.

Dave

[heinkeljb]

Well done, I hope made a note of the specs of the seals in case you need some for the other wheel cylinders. The only thing I think you need to worry about is the thickness of the brake lining material. Too thick and the drum will rub and possibly as it heats up actually jam the hub. Too thin and you run the risk of popping a wheel cylinder piston of the cylinder when pressing really hard on the brake pedal.

I am sure you have got those two things under control, so I'll stop giving you scare stories now!

Enjoy driving you Haflinger!

John

[AustHaflinger]

I went to the supplier this morning, I asked him to fit the seals on the pistons but when he tried they split as well. He managed to find some that were ok.
I have now refitted the cylinder, brake pads and refitted the wheel, so now I only have to bleed the brakes.

Dave

Haven't you got a VW independent mechanic up there in the sticks - they should be able to provide you with wheel cylinders.

[Goatwerks]

Which VW wheel cylinder seals fit for fronts?(22mm)
Never found a cross reference.

[AustHaflinger]

Was talking about complete wheel cylinders not seals.

[ogdenenterprise]

The cylinders have been previously re lined and are in good condition, so I only needed the seals.

Dave

[ogdenenterprise]

I started to bleed the brakes, so started at the rear passenger side, but I could not get any brake fluid through.
I have finally traced it to the short flexible brake pipe which connects to the 2 metal brake pipes feeding that leg, to allow for axle movement
the pipe is blocked solid, so its another trip to the brake supplier.

Dave

[heinkeljb]

Hi Dave,
If you are doing the brake system, as you have the system empty, maybe think about changing ALL the flexible pipes? They all will suffer from age and one of the more difficult ones to find is when the brakes stick on and don't release due to the interior of a flexible hose acting like a one way valve, i.e. allowing you to push fluid to a wheel cylinder but not letting the fluid back to the the master cylinder.

By the way, did you get any details like make or part number for the wheel cylinder seals you had fitted? Was the wheel cylinder size 19mm or 22mm? It's always nice to know when some one finds a current spare part that fits!

Seems you are a few steps away from being able to drive your Haflinger - Have you driven it before?

John

[jhon]

Yes, that's what I found with mine just after buying it - the hoses had 'collapsed' and would not allow return of fluid upon release of the brake, which resulted in the wheels being locked.

A relatively easy (if expensive) fix as I recall.

[AustHaflinger]

I agree with John - replace all the rubber brake hoses.

Garry

[ogdenenterprise]

I replaced all the hoses and pipes when I started the rebuild, I was told all the cylinders had been re-lined and looking at the one I replaced the liner was in good condition. sorry I didn't get a part number for the seals. I got the Haflinger in 2007 and started the rebuild around mid 2008, so I did the brake lines etc sometime after that. I got them with the brake pipes and some other parts when I visited Tony Hrleja , when I was on holiday in Melbourne, but I don't know how long Tony had them in stock. I remember having a bit of a struggle getting through security at the airport with the pipes as they were coiled up in a plastic bag.
John, Yes I have driven it before. It has been drivable for a few years, but it has never been registered for the road while I have owned it.

Dave

[AustHaflinger]

Given its little use, I am surprised the rubber hoses may have delaminated. When I bought my Haflinger in 2012 the one thing that had just been done was replace these and mine have been fine. But given you have found one blocked indicates something has happened and maybe had just been on the shelf too long.

[bernard callahan]

I have brand new hoses and the springs, the springs are all the same size

[bernard callahan]

The springs can be difficult to put back on, I use a flat head screw driver and put a groove in the end of it to stop the spring from sliding off when pushing it up to go through hole.

[heinkeljb]

The manual has a description of how to put those springs back in, involving a piece of welding wire with a hook at one end and a handle at the other end so you can pull on the spring.

I am sure that everyone who has had to put those springs back on has come up with their method of achieving it.....

John