Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

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heinkeljb
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Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by heinkeljb »

I know all of you will have read the manual and digested the point about cleaning the brake drums after off roading.

I try to do it after each trial that I take Lurch to, but there are occasions when you come back and other than using a power washer to remove the obvious mud, you leave it at that. What you should actually do is:-

Remove the wheels.
Remove the brake drums.
Wash the mud out of the backing plate and brake shoes.
Dry everything!

THEN:

Remove the rubber dust covers from the wheel brake cylinders and clean every bit in there! Move the pistons back and forth and clean the bit of the bore that you can get at.
Use some RED brake grease to put inside the dust covers and in the bit of the bore you can get at.

Reassemble things.

Doing this will stop you having the issue I have just had - Seized rear wheel cylinders! I cleaned things, but didn't re-grease things and so they have "rusted / corroded" up in the couple of weeks I haven't used Lurch....

Now I have to buy new ones as they won't move and trying to knock them out just results in the deformation of the piston.

So be warned.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Julian B
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by Julian B »

That is a LOAD of work to do after every trial event !

I thought the whole point of the rubber boots on the brake cylinders was to keep crud and water out of that area? But obviously not ...
Julian B
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heinkeljb
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by heinkeljb »

They certainly help to keep the mud out but they have holes for the pegs from the brake shoes so they will always let the water in. It then pools at the bottom of the rubber and against the piston and the bore. If left it just helps with forming rust / corrosion.
Only way to help prevent it is to use red brake grease inside the rubbers, but use too much and it will come out and could contaminate the brake linings. So you have to try and find a suitable amount to use. that will keep the water off the metal but not so much that it comes out!

John
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Techmogogy
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by Techmogogy »

Do you have original brake cylinders or replacement ones?
Just wondering if the issue is for OEM or if possibly replacement ones use a composite of metal that is more prone to rust?
Just a thought
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heinkeljb
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by heinkeljb »

Replacement ones, as I had to replace all of them when I first got Lurch. The previous owners managed to jam the piston of the master cylinder at the bottom of of the bore, so there were no brakes. Then when I started looking at things, I discovered 3 of the 4 wheel cylinders were leaking!
So best option was to re-new the braking system, master cylinder, flexible hoses, wheel cylinders, brake shoes.

I don't think there is any real difference between OEM and replacement. Replacement ones are VW, but probably not OEM VW. I think the biggest issue would be the difference in metal that is used to make the pistons compared to the body. Corrosion rather than rust due to dissimilar metals is the most likely cause of my wheel cylinders being stuck. Won't know until I get them off and manage to get the pistons out!

Still waiting for the various spares to arrive.

John
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by heinkeljb »

Having put the brakes back together, sorted the petrol tank leak, I attempted to take Lurch out for a test drive before going to try for an MOT.
Rubbish thing!
Won’t let me go backwards!!!!
Can go forward, but nearside rear wheel won’t turn backwards - although when I put it together it all seemed Okay.
Must have done something when trying to adjust the handbrake.
Oh well, now I have to spend some time busy sorting this issue!

John
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by AustHaflinger »

You definitely ran over a Chinaman in an earlier life.

I hope it is only just a brake thing (only) and not that gearbox/diff thing you had a while back.

However I cannot see how the brakes would stop the wheel going back if the wheel goes forward.

But you do look at the easiest things first and that is the brakes.

Garry
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by heinkeljb »

FAILED!

Hand brake not good enough. Rear offside wheel binding, exhaust system leaking from several points, front near side brake hose apparently can foul against the body - never been a problem before and I haven’t touched it! Maybe it got moved during one of the trials?

Then it has advisory’s :-

Front brake pipes slightly corroded
Hand brake lever pulls up to far

Body corroded !!!

So got this weekend booked! Might have to go to Holland in the Smart....

John
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Julian B
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by Julian B »

If there is anything I can do to help - be it a second pair of hands or a shoulder to cry on - give me a call and I will pop down!
Julian B
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heinkeljb
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by heinkeljb »

I have now put some Haflingertechnik relined brake shoes on. The nearside seems alright but the offside seems very tight on my drum. Maybe it will loosen up a bit if I get the hub spinning using the engine.

Handbrake is the one which seemed wrong. I am thinking maybe the new handbrake cable I got from Haflingertechnik is a bit wrong. It seems like the relative length between the inner and the outer is wrong as I could not get the arms in a suitable position to allow the handbrake lever to pull them with out them getting right up against the swinging arms.

Will have another go tomorrow as now I have to baby sit!!’

John
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by AustHaflinger »

heinkeljb wrote:FAILED!

Hand brake not good enough. Rear offside wheel binding, exhaust system leaking from several points, front near side brake hose apparently can foul against the body - never been a problem before and I haven’t touched it! Maybe it got moved during one of the trials?

Then it has advisory’s :-

Front brake pipes slightly corroded
Hand brake lever pulls up to far

Body corroded !!!

So got this weekend booked! Might have to go to Holland in the Smart....

John
Look at the bright side of things - the fuel tank passed ;)

I thought living in the UK meant that everything was corroded and it was all normal.

If the handbrake cable is adjusted up then you are going to have to loosen it off and then adjust the levers on the splines on the rear hubs and adjust the cable up again - a very tiresome task. Hopefully you just need to adjust the cable but if I was a betting man I bet it will already be adjusted to its max - if you have to adjust on the splines on the rear hubs then I suggest moving two splines rather than one - if it will go that far.

Garry
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heinkeljb
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by heinkeljb »

I put a new handbrake cable on from Haflingertecnik some time ago and tried to put new brake shoes in at the same time, but they wouldn't go in the drums, so I put the old ones back in. Adjusted the handbrake at the time, but is was terrible, pulling the lever right up and still not holding on any sort of slope. It looked like the arms on the hubs were over vertical and jammed up against the swing arm (on booth sides). THis suggests I have to move the arms on the splines but loosening everything off still would not allow me to move one spline and get the cables on!

I have now managed to get the new brake shoes into hubs, but nearside turns well, but offside is still very stiff (rubbing on the shoes). Must be that as the hub flange turns nicely with outthe brake drum on.

Have not connected up the arms or the cables yet. I am leaning towards the cable from Haflingertechnik being wrong. The relative distance between the inner and outer and / or the overall length may be wrong. I'll try to find the old cable to do a comparison (I am sure I did one before I fitted the new one). All this means more dismantling and I don't have time to do that if I want to get an MOT before this coming weekend. Was due to go to the Haflinger and Pingauer club treffen and collect a first timer who wanted to drive there in his Haf along the way. Then there is the Dutch treffen the next week end.

Agghhh!!

John
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by heinkeljb »

Think I have sorted the brakes / handbrake issue. The nearside did not want to stop the wheel when the offside was locked. Need two people to see that the near side internal arm system was not being moved by the cable moved - an gap existed between the two internal moving bits. Basically I managed to get the external arm on the near side was one spline out although it all looked correct when I put it together first time round!
I blame the specs I have to wear to do close up work!!!

Now I have stuffed exhaust paste into all the holes in the exhaust system so should have no leaks at least whilst the MOT mans looks for the leaks again.

Moved the top offside brake flexible hose mounting point to make sure the flexible hose does not touch the clutch cable outer which is the only tiny patch I could find on the flexible hose that might have been what he complained about....

So should be good to get the free retest if I can get it back to the test station before the weekend! Will have to see if I can get a couple of hours off from work!!!

John
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by AustHaflinger »

Sounds good - at least the light at the end of the tunnel is visible in that this will be your last MOT or is your Haflinger too young?

Garry
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Julian B
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by Julian B »

John's Haflinger will indeed fall in to the new rules (any car more than a rolling 40 years old, whereas previously it had been a fixed date of 1960), but it will still be necessary to keep such vehicles in a road worthy condition.

I still have my 1956 Citroen given the occasional MOT just to ensure that I haven't missed something dire. And I will also do this with my Haflinger.
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by heinkeljb »

My plan to ask work if I could come in late in order to get Lurch back to the testing station which opens at 8am has sort of worked, can take Lurch in on wednesday morning. If it fails again then that’s my weekend up in Norfolk scuppered - and I was due to go in convoy with Alf’ s son as he wants to drive his Haf there but didn’t want to do it alone....
So fingers crossed everybody!

John
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by heinkeljb »

Just taken Lurch for quick spin around a few local streets and back home the front wheel hubs are cold and the rear ones are warm heading towards hot, also performance is way down. So rear hubs are still binding - the relined brake shoes and my hubs although they fit are obviously either badly adjusted or I have the handbrake too tight.
Tomorrow evening I shall have to slacken the adjusters off a little bit and loosen the handbrake adjuster. Here's hoping that will be enough for the MOT tester.
John
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by heinkeljb »

Passed!
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by Julian B »

Woo Hoo !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Why routine cleaning of brake drums is a good idea

Post by AustHaflinger »

Thats great - but the lesson out of all this is "don't clean your brakes" :?

John maybe you should go back and change the title of the thread to "why routine cleaning of brake drums is NOT a good idea" :lol:

Just kidding of course - I hope your trips all come together Ok.

Cheers

Garry
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