Vapour Lock?

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AustHaflinger
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Vapour Lock?

Post by AustHaflinger »

My haflinger has an electric fuel pump which is located near the voltage regulator and near where the original mechanical pump would have been so the plumbing is not a different to the standard setup. I have an inline fuel filter between the glass water catch and the pump.

Today I had to go over Canberra's satellite city Queanbeyan so I took the Haflinger for a run. Driving over I had no issues but coming back the engine would stall whenever I stopped at lights. It was difficult to restart with the throttle having to be held right down with a lot of cranking with the occasional fire but would not continue to run. After a little bit of a rest it would burst into life and run Ok until the next set of lights and die in the ....... again.

We are just coming into summer and the outside temp is 36 degrees C (97F) at the moment and will get a lot hotter in the new year. This high outside temp and the symptoms are indicative of a vapour lock. So others from warmer climates, has anyone had vapour lock issues and anyone put an electric fuel pump up near the tank where pump pressure will push any vapour locks though to the carby bowl and eventually vent to atmosphere.

Other than this my Haffie is running well.

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
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Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
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heinkeljb
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by heinkeljb »

Gary,

There are a couple of other reasons you might be having the problem you are experiencing.

1: Dirt in the fuel - blocked jets can do much the same thing, so you could try clearing them. A can of compressed "Air" works well. The sort they use to clean computers with.

2: A blocked fuel filler cap. There should be a vent in the cap to allow air into the tank to replace the fuel used. If it is blocked then it can take a while to equalize the pressure again.

3: There is a "pre heat" pipe which directs exhaust gas from the left hand (looking from the back) cylinder under the Carb and then off on the right hand side in to the exhaust system again. Maybe it is getting the carb too hot? You could always put a blanking washer in the joint on the left hand side and see if that helps.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Rick K
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by Rick K »

Hi Gary

Im having the exact same problem with my pathfinder. Im finding the red lining in the fuel tank is deteriorating, and Im needing to change fuel filteres far too often. My bet is some crud in the jets, but havnt had the time to clean then. Ill let you know if that helped.

Ill have to bight the bullet and re-line the tank one day soon. Ive used the POR15 US fuel tank liner for my other projects in the past, which worked very well.

cheers

Rick
1963 Haflinger 700APTL (ex- Hydro Tasmania)
several Puch scooters[/size]
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by AustHaflinger »

Thanks Rick and John - you both seem to be on the same track.

My only issue I have with what you suggest is that wouldn't the issue be there all the time and not just when the day is hot and then only when the engine is hot.

Seeing I am currently getting the correct Zenith carby rebuilt so not real keen on pulling the current carby apart at the moment but I will replace the inline filter in case it has clogged up a bit. John my heater carby has a restriction in it so it does not get so hot but on a real hot day it could be too hot. I have a brand new manifold/carby heater pipe to go on with the new carby so hopefully if it is that side of things all will be OK.

John I will wait until the fuel level drops a bit and run the engine with the tank cap off and see if the problem persists - I will also check the breather.

Rick I have mixed reports on POR15 tank sealer but I have used it once on a bike tank and it seemed to work quite well. I am thinking about also relining my tank as there is a weep there somewhere - I cannot find the weep but I can smell it.

Thanks for the comments - good stuff to chase up.

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
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Rick K
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by Rick K »

Hi Garry

Id be keen to hear what issues there may be with the POR15 tank liner, for future reference. I found the prep work was time consuming and a bit tricky, but is critical to the product performance and longevity. My only issue has been with a Puch scooter tank where I failed to clear the vent pipe before the stuff had started to cure- and now I have to ride with the fuel cap partially un-screwed. :oops: So since then with other projects I attach a aquarium air pump to the vent pipe during the curing process to make sure the paint dosnt block it.

Also, it cures relatively quickly on hot humid days, which is something to watch when trying to keep the drain and sensor threads clear of paint.

cheers

Rick
1963 Haflinger 700APTL (ex- Hydro Tasmania)
several Puch scooters[/size]
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by AustHaflinger »

The main issue seemed to be the coating lifting when in service and then clogging the fuel system. This may very well because as you have mentioned poor preparation. As you have found, I found that it has good coverage and is capable of filling holes when being used as a sealer - also provided great coverage all over the inside surface if the tank is continually being rotated.

Nevertheless on other car forums I go on there have been a few bad experiences.

Cheers

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
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heinkeljb
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by heinkeljb »

Gary,

You don't want to run it with the tank cap off - just rotate it 80 degrees or so. In other words, put the tank cap back on, and rotate it so the spring tags JUST engage the ring on the petrol tank. That would allow enough of an air gap all round the cap to let air in and smell out!

I shall have to clean and reline my tank as well. The strange orange coating in side is peeling and disintegrating. I found the drain plug holes blocked with it, the inline filter has a fine lot of orange sediment in it so that will have to be replaced soon.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Julian B
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by Julian B »

FWIW I did my fuel tank with POR 15 a couple of years ago and it worked really well. Even now one can almost see your reflection in the paint when you look in to the tank.
Julian B
W Sussex, UK

| '62 Early Series I SWB | '72 Series II LWB |
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Markus
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by Markus »

If this helps anyone.

Tank preparation for new liner.

Wedge tank into cement mixer with wood and cloth. Put a few Kg of gravel and paint stripper in and let run for a few hours.
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heinkeljb
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by heinkeljb »

Then put it in a bath of Citric acid - You can buy citric acid powder (dilute with water). That will remove any rust and a few other things besides, but being a weak acid solution, the rust is the first to go onto solution.

Rinse well and dry.

Coat with which ever fuel tank lining chemical mixture you prefer!

Job done:-


Except I haven't done mine yet!! :D

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Rick K
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by Rick K »

I went down the lazy path with respect to paint and rust removal of Haflinger and Puch scooter tanks- gave them to a commercial paint stripping company that used a series of chemical baths. http://www.redistrip.com.au/ This gave me a perfect 'blank canvas' of beautiful bare metal to work from. Two coats of POR 15 rust preventitive paint on the outside and the POR15 tank liner on the inside- should outlast me!
1963 Haflinger 700APTL (ex- Hydro Tasmania)
several Puch scooters[/size]
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by AustHaflinger »

With my bike tank I did initially try the blue metal inside the tank and tumble - only sort of worked and but did punch a few more holes in the rusted area.

I then immersed the tank in molasses diluted to a 1:10 mix with water and left it there for four weeks - worked pretty well just a bit stinky.
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
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AustHaflinger
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Zenith Carby Setup

Post by AustHaflinger »

To minimise the chance of vapour lock I moved the inline fuel filter to between the pump and carby so the pump does not have to try and suck through filter and I shortened the rubber fuel hoses.

It is 37°C here at the moment so I took the Haffie for a 30km run to see if the engine still dies when I stop at traffic lights etc and then is extremely difficult to start.

For the first 10km no issues - stopped at lights and engine idled OK and then took off no issues - then I stopped at a light and it stopped :cry: - so is not vapour lock. John I though about your comment re the carby heater tube providing too much heat and is a likely cause but I touched it and it was not overly hot as I could keep my hand on it.

So I came back home and when I parked in the drive it did not stop like it had before but sat there idling like butter would not melt in its air intakes. :lol:

Just as I was about to have the biggest dummy spit in the history of the world I got a call from the guy rebuilding my Zenith Carb so I will pick it up tomorrow - and will hopefully forget this issue I am having with the non original Solex carby I have fitted.

So tomorrow hand over $330AUD for the carby and then put on the correct inlet manifold - bolt it all up static tune the carb.

So - what is the best way to set up the carb to a static tune so I can later take it in for an electronic tuneup ie set idle and mixture.

Also - what are the standard spark plugs for a Haffie as I have some hi spec Iridium plugs fitted but I think they soot up a bit and want to change back to standard plugs but one stage hotter?

Thanks

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
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heinkeljb
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by heinkeljb »

Gary,

I found this which might help:

Repair manual quotes Bosch w225 t1 - sticking that in Google gave me this:

http://www.sparkplugcrossreference.co.u ... 225t1.html

From this you should be able to find a suitable plug, then you can find a heat range chart for hte make of plug you are using which will tell you which way the numbering goes to get a hotter plug.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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AustHaflinger
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by AustHaflinger »

Thanks John - good link I should be able to get the NGKs locally.

Another hot day today so I took the Haffie to get my carby -a 100km round trip so I left early when the temp was only 30°C before it gets really hot. I drove with the upper engine cover open and really didn't have any issues at all. It would seem that there is little ventilation in the actual engine bay noting the fan blows air through the tinwork and then out so there is little outside ventilation getting into the rest of the engine bay. I think that when hot and at slow revs the fuel in the carb is boiling and causing poor running - this did not happen with the top open and fresh air getting around all areas of the engine bay. Hopefully all academic with my new carb and inlet manifold.

Image

Image

The technician statically set the idle mixture in about the correct position (2 1/2 turns so should run the engine OK). The main jet is 115 and I just hope that is not too big - I guess we will see.

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
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heinkeljb
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by heinkeljb »

If it appears to run OK with the engine hatch open, is the flip up cover of the rear access cover up or down?

I am sure it would be possible to make a minor alteration to the fan cover to allow it to blow air at the Carb, question would be where at the carb?

Some thing you could try which doesn't involve changing anything: The top of the rear shocks on my Hafi have a rubber bung access hole through the fire wall. Remove one or both and see if that allows enough outside air in to keep the engine bay cool enough. Obviously this will only really work whilst moving, but it might be enough even standing still.

Any hole you make in the fan tin ware could be made so you can cover it up if it doesn't work or causes problems when it is "winter time".

The other thing that you could try, thicker fiber insulator between the carb and the manifold.

I know you are going to change the manifold and Carb, but it would be nice to know if you can cure the issues with the carb that is currently on it.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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AustHaflinger
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Re: Vapour Lock?

Post by AustHaflinger »

Hi John - I have already ripped the old carby and inlet manifold out and started putting in the new gear. The throttle linkage had been modified so I need to correct that, likewise I need to get the banjo fuel fitting for the carby as mine just has a straight fuel pipe on it. Likewise the inlet manifold needs a bracket welded onto it to hold the airfilter. When these are done the haffie should be up and running again.

So am not going to investigate the issues I have had unless they return when the new carby is up and running. I drove with the top hatch open - seemed to be Ok but the engine is a lot louder.

Cheers

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
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