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[AustHaflinger]

Can someone please confirm that when the timing marks on the crankshaft pulley and the fan housing are aligned the engine is at TDC and not the static timing position of 6-7mm BTDC?

Thanks

Garry

[heinkeljb]

While I can't confirm 100% that the timing marks TDC on the left hand cylinder which is the one used for timing the engine up. I can say that using it as if it were means my engine will start and run!

Actually, the is a reasonably easy way to find out. Take the left hand spark plug out,
Turn the engine over until the marks line up.
Put a pencil or other wooden dowel into the spark plug hole and feel for the top of the piston. If the pencil / dowel goes in a long way then you are likely timed up on the right hand cylinder. Turn the crank 180 degrees. Make sure you don't jam the pencil / dowel whilst turning the engine over, actually, thats why I say use a pencil / dowel - it will break long before doing any damage to the engine!

When you have got the piston at the top of it's travel with e pencil / dowel touching the top of the piston, you can move the crank shaft backwards and forwards whilst holding the pencil / dowel and "feel" the point at which the piston changes direction. That is TDC on that cylinder and the marks on the dynastart and crank case should line up.

When i took my dynastart off to check on the brushes, I decided I did not really like the "little" peg which is there to provide a static alignment of the fan surround. It is too small and it would be easy to clamp the fan surround slightly off which would affect the ignition timing if you rely on the timing marks.

Check that the timing mark on the fan surround lines up with the split in the crank cases.

I found a nice powered strobe unit with Tacho which allows you to see the number of degrees of advance or retard you have by getting the timing marks to line up again under the strobe light.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks John - yep I could do what you have suggested but it is easier to ask on here - but more importantly I don't actually have the car in my possession.

As far as using a timing strobe light - my Haffie only has one mark on the fan surround and one mark on the crank pulley - so other than guessing or scribing before and after marks on either the pulley or fan surround how do you measure the timing with your strobe light - how to do read the BTDC numbers?

Wow - it is 8pm here and it is 45°c out on my balcony but the sun is going down so should cool down before too long.

Thanks

Garry

[heinkeljb]

My strobe is obviously very clever!

The mark on the pulley wheel needs to be made more visible - "Tipex" or white paint is ideal.
The mark of the fan housing needs to be made more visible as well.

Then the + ve and - ve of the strobe are connected to the battery, the sensor clip is put on to the left hand HT lead.

Assuming you have done the points gap correctly with feeler gauges, and you have managed to get the engine to run with a basic static timing setup.

The way my strobe system work is that with the engine running, the strobe firing at the timing marks, you get a "static" image of the timing marks. If the engine is idling, you will see an offset of the marks. The strobe has "+" and "-" arrows which allow you to adjust the point at which the strobe fires, so it will move the "static" image you see. Line the two marks up and read the LCD to find out how many degrees advance or retard your points are set to. Increase the engine revs and do the same exercise again.

Obviously, you can adjust the distributor if you need to; but that should only be necessary if you are using a non-standard cam, or your points (heel) are very worn.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks - I think I will have to get one of them smart strobes. The one I have just flashes.

[Julian B]

I bought one of these last year and it is excellent (but not cheap). Very clever, and easy to use. IIRC it is the same as John's.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001 ... UTF8&psc=1

[heinkeljb]

That's the one!

As mentioned, it wasn't cheap but being smart it understands some how that is it connected to a two cylinder engine when it display engine revs. I proved this by connecting to the Haflinger and getting plausible rev readings. THen on my 3 cylinder Smart can which has a rev counter - got the same readings on both tachometers. Then on a V8 MGB where again it matched the tachometer.

When we tried it out on Julian's Haflinger, it showed the engine was rev'ing quite high compared to mine - which you could tell from the noise and showed that the tachometer he was trying at the time was way out!

John

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks for that information - quite a bit cheaper for that model in Aus - here £50 delivered.

I think I will get one.

Cheers

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

I have ordered one of these timing lights - thanks.

The reason for this thread is that as part of the work my mechanic is doing in sorting the carby - see my carby thread here http://thehaflinger.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2934 - he has to time the engine first.

According to the dizzy map in the workshop manual and the 123 Fiat 500 Electronic Ignition manual the advance should be about 30°BTDC at 3500rpm where my engine is at 47°BTDC and the tuner believes the engine will not survive with this amount of advance. At idle the timing is correct - 10°BTDC so it is not just a matter of turning the dizzy to compensate. He was using a stobe light like the one above and showed me how advanced the ignition is.

The problem will either be with the computer chip in the electronic ignition or the coil pack.

Anyway - I have had enough so I have rung Tony Hrelja in Melbourne to see if he has a complete dizzy (he is getting back to me) and if I have no luck looking to the usual international suppliers.

There is no point sorting the carby issues until the ignition is sorted.

Isn't it wonderful to have a money pit

[heinkeljb]

Wow, your not having much with it at the moment are you? I agree the timing needs to be sorted first.

I thought the book talked of 6 - 7 degrees BTDC not 10 degrees? If that's the case, maybe turning the distributor a bit would bring the map more in line with what it should be.

Watch out for the fact that there are at least two distributors available for a Haflinger. - The HT leads are wired opposite on each. I don't know if that is based on the complete distributor or on engine internal gears running the other way or some thing. All I can say is that mine has the left hand HT lead from the distributor going to the left hand cylinder and I have seen pictures of engines where the left hand HT lead goes to the right hand cylinder!

Still, once the ignition is sorted, then the carburation, just about everything on your Haflinger will be done!!

John

[AustHaflinger]

When I said idle - actually meant about 1000rpm as idle has not been set up correctly on the carb. The workshop manual graph shows ignition should be about 10°BTDC at 1000rpm which it is.

I didn't know about the two different dizzies - thanks for that information and I will enquire when I discuss getting the new dizzy.

Oh - for Aussie members - can you get suitable coils locally at places like Repco etc and if so what models are you using?

Thanks

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

Still, once the ignition is sorted, then the carburation, just about everything on your Haflinger will be done!!

John

I then start searching for the dodgy bearing somewhere in the drivetrain.

[AustHaflinger]

I have found a 123 coil pack and hopefully that will fix the ignition issue. However I have also purchased a good second hand distributor from Tony Hrelja in Melbourne so hopefully, one way or another the timing advance issue I have should be resolved.

As mentioned - can any Aussie members advise what coil to buy from local suppliers?

Thanks

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Gary,

I don't think there is any thing special about the ignition coil on a Haflinger, unless it is the waterproof one with the screw thread covers.
So I would have thought any 12 volt ignition coil would do the job. You could test using the coil from your Jag. There does not appear to be any ballast resistor fitted so if you can find a bog standard 1980's /1960's car one, that would probably work.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Yes I agree - and I do have a couple of spare coils that I know that are good and can use one of them but they do have different specs and in the long term I want to make sure I have the right one.

Also, I have looked in the parts manual and do not see any vacuum advance so can I assume the dizzy only has mechanical advance and no vacuum advance.

Thanks

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Definitely no vacuum advance!

Mechanical as it has two moving weights under the points plate.

The parts manual I have lists the ignition coil with a Bosch part number: Sticking the part number into Google produces this:-
http://www.autopartoo.com/oem/bosch/0221102056.html

Has a cross reference to a couple of other manufactures. Might have to try that several times to find a make you can get hold of.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks John - I will do the same here and see what I come up with.

Cheers

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

The parts manual I have lists the ignition coil with a Bosch part number: Sticking the part number into Google produces this:-
http://www.autopartoo.com/oem/bosch/0221102056.html

Hi John,

What Bosch number from the Parts Manual did you use? The parts manual I have lists the Bosch number as 0221115001 which is a blank on my google. On your google did you get 0221102056 as a cross reference to 0221115001 or was the first number in your parts manual.

Thanks

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Worse!
In my parts book it is a hand penned entry over the top of the original Bosch part number 0221115001 which you obviously have in your parts book. So it is obviously an update as I have quite a lot of hand penned pages in my parts book. So I took that to mean they have updates some part numbers and that was one of them.

Quite probably, if you could find an old Bosch parts book it would list your part number as being superseded by mine. (At least that is what i am telling myself)!

If it stops raining long enough this weekend, I see if my coil has any details on it that could be used.

John

[Julian B]

I came across this Bosch website a few months ago - in connection with another car that I have - and it may be helpful for Haflinger parts? You have to register (free), and I have yet to work out how to get the best out of the site.

http://www.automotive-tradition.de/en/w ... herche.htm?