Engine Died

[HaffyHunter]

my engine has a No2 camshaft which is out of a very early engine not the later engine I have - any ideas why? and what are the characteristics of the different cam numbers

Hi Garry,
I had some discussion about the #2, #3 & #5 camshaft profiles a while back with Constantin. About all we know is that the #5 camshaft is used in all the 27HP motors with 4800RPM rev limit. Presumably, the cam profile allows for a greater air/fuel charge at the higher RPM. The #3 camshaft is found in early series 2 engines with Zenith NDIX carb rated at 24HP. The #2 camshaft is found in series 1 motors with Weber carb rated at 21HP and limited to 4500RPM.
I suspect that a compromise was made when going to the #5 profile to gain better high RPM performance and as such sacrificed a bit of low RPM torque as is usually the way with camshaft designs. Perhaps the previous builder of your engine had the same theory as I in this regard and preferred heavier torque at low speed.
Cheers,
Steve

[AustHaflinger]

Yes - thanks Steve. I just don't know - it certainly revved OK. I am certainly not going to tinker with the engine any more. I haven't put the engine back in yet so I am not sure how it will go this time around.

I am now beginning to suspect the original engine died a while back and the then owner rebuilt the engine with the big bore kit and an old weber carbied engine for parts. The crankcase on the current engine is the correct one with the right engine number but there is a number of older accessories on it - eg the manifold that was on it was a weber manifold, the cam was from an older engine and I am now wondering if the crank is also from the older engine. The remains of the old weber engine I have is missing theb crankshaft and cam so maybe these are in my engine.

After my recent build I did not use the heads that were on the engine but used the ones that were on the old weber engine. These were cleaned up and 40mm inlet valves put in. While the older and newer heads look the same there is a little bit of webbing on the newer ones but the engine builder said otherwise they are the same. Less metal was taken out of these heads as the ones that were on the engine has started to crack where the push rod tube goes through the head.

Cheers

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Gary,

Does sound like you have bits from two engines in your current "running" engine. Not that it is a bad thing if the parts are serviceable and compatible. Like you I don't know how much they changed parts during the build life of the engines. I would guess they didn't change major components very much as new machining costs a lot. Things on the outside cost less to alter, the oil filler for example or the fuel pump.

Let's hope you current engine turns out to be a good build.

Post some pictures of things as they stand.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Post some pictures of things as they stand.

John

The Haflinger looks like and other Haflinger with the engine removed and the engine looks like any other Haffie engine so not much point in pics - but I will have a look tomorrow.

While the engine is out I am going to replace the spigot bush and the clutch activating bearing - the clutch itself is as new.

How do I get the spigot bush out of the flywheel without butchering things.

Cheers

Garry

[pathfinder700ap]

Garry,

are you referring to the number on the shaft itself or on the gearwheel of the camshaft? Some people confuse these.
As Steve mentioned, the no. 5 camshaft is usually fitted on younger, higher revving engines. The cam profile has a slightly higher stroke and a larger overlapping phase.


Kind regards,
Constantin

[AustHaflinger]

Hi Constantin - I have no idea - with the camshaft in place in the engine and the barrels out I just looked through the holes where the barrels press in and saw a 2 stamped on the camshaft. By gearwheel - I assume you mean the gear that drives the cam off the crank.

Cheers

Garry

[heinkeljb]

If the No2 was stamped on the actual camshaft as opposed to the gear wheel which turns the cam shaft I would hazard a guess that the number relates to the camshaft profile itself.

John

[pathfinder700ap]

Hello,

yes it sounds as if you have seen the correct number. Here is an example for a no. 5 camshaft:

Kind regards,
Constantin

[AustHaflinger]

Yes - that is what I saw - though obviously a 2 instead of a 5. Irrespective of this it does seem to work no issues - I just wish I knew the reasons for using it.

Cheers

Garry

[HaffyHunter]

Hi Garry,
I'd be willing to bet that when the original engine gave out its cam and crankshaft got ruined. The owner likely had or found the older engine so used what was on hand to rebuild the newer engine cases. Likely nothing more technical than that.
Cheers,
Steve

[AustHaflinger]

Steve - I suspect you are correct - and this also prompted the installation of the big bore kit.

Cheers

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

I have been preoccupied with other things for a while but it is time to put the Haffie back on the road. I just have to put the engine back in etc.

While the engine is out I want to replace the spigot bush and the clutch withdrawal bearing. The clutch itself shows little wear so will go back in.

I have new parts but I am at a bit of a loss to work out how to get the old spigot bush out. Normally I would just make up a hook arrangement to hook it out or break it an pull the bits out - however the haffie spigot looks like it only has a wall thickness of about a mm so both procedures are difficult. So how have others got the spigot bush out.

Should I take the flywheel off and tap it out from the other side?



Also I cannot remember which way the clutch friction plate goes as there is no markings on it to indicate the pressure plate side and the flywheel side - I left it this way so assume it is they way it goes.


And I assume this is the wrong way


Thanks

Garry

[Goatwerks]

Flat side of disk faces flywheel. The "pilot bushing" can be removed while in place.
To remove I use a bolt and sleeve, as the bolt threads into the bushing it pulls the bushing out of the nut.

[heinkeljb]

Flat side of disk faces flywheel. The "pilot bushing" can be removed while in place.
To remove I use a bolt and sleeve, as the bolt threads into the bushing it pulls the bushing out of the nut.

Sorry, this makes no sense!

I understand using a split sleeve with a lip and a bolt and cone shaped threaded section that would expand as you tighten up the bolt. then using either a slightly a larger sleeve to draw the bush out into the large sleeve or using a slide hammer to gently tap the internal split sleeve and bolt out bringing the bushing with it.

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just trying to make sense of things as it is quite likely I will have to do the same thing some time in the future. Say's he crossing everything and throwing salt of both shoulders!

John

[Goatwerks]

It is an old mechanic/machinist trick for removing bushings when no extractor is available, you put a larger diameter sleeve or socket over the bore, put a washer on the bolt , and through the socket and as the bolt cuts threads into the soft bushing the insert is pulled out.
You could also use an expanding bushing extractor if you have one.
Also, if you have a spare input shaft, use it to remove any burrs after installing new bushing, lube with moly grease.
I bet you can't wait to get it back up and running
Over 35yrs working on vehicles, you tend to pick up a few good short cuts.
Have fun, I got to get back in the shop and finish assembling an engine for a 62 series 1 unit .

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks Jim - and John for the query.

The threads should bite into the soft metal of the bush - I guess you could also use a thread tap.

Yes looking forward to getting it back on the road but then I will have to search for the bearing growl coming from the drivetrain - is hard to hear where it is coming from and has not got worse in 2500km of driving. I think it is either a front diff bearing or the bearing at the front of the chassis tube holding the driveshaft but I will not know until I start pulling things apart.

Cheers

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Gary,

Maybe get the Haf on a rolling road with a mechanics stethoscope and listen to various parts in turn. Might work if you got all 4 wheels in the air and just ran it at slow speed, but that might not make enough noise to identify exactly where it is coming from.

I have decided my noise is in the gearbox / rear diff as If I coast down hill in neutral I don't get the noise that I get when driving in gears! So the joy of taking a gearbox apart awaits me!

John

[heinkeljb]

Hi Jim,

Thank for the explanation, I do know about using a slightly larger tube over a bush, but have always had something suitable on the other side of the bush that would "push" it in to the tube. So now I have a new trick that might come in useful some day - thanks!

John

[AustHaflinger]

To remove I use a bolt and sleeve, as the bolt threads into the bushing it pulls the bushing out of the nut.

Following on from your advice I found a large bolt that would screw into the bush cutting a thread as it went - I then removed the bolt and filled the void below the bush in the flywheel with small nuts so when the bolt was screwed back in it would not go right down - I screwed the bolt into the bush and it went down until the end of it hit the loose nuts and as you continued to turn the bolt it screwed the bush out of its hole as it moved up the helix on the bolt - a magnetic pick up then retreived the loose nuts in the flywheel.

I guess the difference I filled the void with loose nuts to stop the bolt screwing down too far where you suggested using a sleeve/socket at the top to stop the bolt going down too far.

Great trick - I would have never have thought of it - thanks.

[AustHaflinger]

I also went to replace the clutch withdrawal bearing today and was hit with the usual reproduction parts don't quite fit. There are two U clips that hold the bearing in place on the clutch fork. One end of the clip fits in a hole in the bearing housing and the other on the clutch fork.

When I put my new bearing in and moved it around the clips just fell out - I refitted them and they just kept on falling out Clearly the clips were not staying clipped to the rear of the clutch fork as they did not seem to be going deep enough into the bearing housing.

Removing the bearing and comparing the hole depth on the new bearing with the old bearing showed the repro was only half as deep so the clips could not go deep enough to stay in position.

I drilled the bearing housing to the correct depth and the clips then went in fine.

So the lesson I have learnt again and again and again with Haflinger, Jaguar and Landrover Parts is that when repro rather than new old stock parts are provided you need to double check they will fit correctly as there is an excellent chance they will not without some sort of modification.

Garry