Oily spark plug

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Yakov
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Oily spark plug

Post by Yakov »

The left-hand side spark plug on my Haflinger is getting covered in oil, resulting in a dead cylinder. Cleaning the plug corrects this, but it gets fouled up again when left overnight. This has happened before, when I've accidentally put too much oil into the engine when refilling after a leak (stupid, I know! =\). I've read somewhere that driving with a dead cylinder can cause fuel to pass the piston rings and dilute oil in the cylinder, but I don't have enough knowledge of engines to assess this claim or whether it has bearing on my issue. I did drive it for a few minutes with a dead cylinder, as I haven't had the vehicle running properly long enough to be used to the proper engine sound...

The plugs I use are NGK B7HS.

Besides worn piston rings, is there anything else I can check for to stop this from happening? Can the issue be with the valves? I assume that I could try hotter plugs, but is there a potential danger or downside to that?
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Goatwerks
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by Goatwerks »

Most likely rings/or worn cylinder.
Check valve guides while heads are off.
These engines have no valve seals.
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heinkeljb
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by heinkeljb »

Welcome to engine maintenance and repair!

Most people who own a Haflinger get to learn about engines and the mechanical things on them over time, so don't feel to out of your depth just yet.

As mentioned above, most likely rings / worn barrels. Could also be just a leaking valve guide.

Have you got the Repair manual and the Parts book? If not, you really ought to buy a copy of each. Whilst not the most detailed or best explanatory workshop manual in the world, it is something that will help with working on your Haflinger.

If you have never really done any work on a vehicle before I would also suggest you get a copy of the Haynes manual about working on small petrol engine. This has nothing specific to do with Haflingers, but the style of writing is aimed more at people who have less knowledge but are capable of following instructions. You will be able to use the techniques you read about in the Haynes manual to working on the Haflinger.

Your specific set of problems will require you to do a fair amount of dismantling of the bodywork (steel sheets under the engine), Removing the rocker box cover, loosening the tappet adjusters, removing the four nuts holding the cylinder head on and gently persuading it to come off.

Be careful no to lose things as the drop off from somewhere. Sometimes it is help full to put a old bed sheet under the engine when you start dismantling things. Stops small things like washers getting lost on the floor!

As you pull the cylinder head off, make sure you collect the rubber seals on the push rod tubes. Stuff a piece of clean cloth into the crankcase around the con rod to stop it falling with a thump on the edge of the crank case as you pull the barrel from the piston. Remember that pistons are "very" handed - i.e. put the same piston back in exactly the same way round on the same side as it was when you took it off.

If you don't have the required tools to measure the parts for wear, taking the repair manual and parts to an engine rebuilder - Someone who works on old motorcycles will probably be more interested in helping you - and get them to tell you if the bits are too worn and which bits will need replacing.

In your evenings when you are in front of your computer, you can obviously pick "our collective brains" with questions and find sources for any parts you need to buy.

Sorry if this is coming across like I am trying to tell you how to things you already know how to do, but I thought it might be helpful for a new owner.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Yakov
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Oily spark plug

Post by Yakov »

Hi John,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I do have the operator, parts and repair manuals. Since I have never taken any engine components apart, I find the repair manual too vague to go by. I am using an 80's high school auto mechanics textbook to learn about working on cars, so if my questions sound stupid - it's because I don't know what I'm talking about!

I do have a parts Haflinger to practice on, so I'm thinking I should try working on it first before attempting work on the running vehicle.

First of all, do I need to remove the engine from the chassis to assess cylinder, piston and piston ring wear?

I've had the rocker covers off, do the rockers, valves or push rods need to come out to examine the cylinder? Do the rocker axles slide out, or is there some tricky way to remove them?

Once I have the cylinder heads removed, what am I looking at\for? Does anyone know if there are photos of the Haflinger at this stage of disassembly?

Sorry for all the questions; I'm worried that if I get to the point where I'm lost, I'll start doing something that'll ruin it! I want to have enough information before I start so I can put it back together with some knowledge gained.
HaffyHunter
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by HaffyHunter »

Hi Yakov,

If the platform is still on the chassis you will have to remove the engine from the chassis to remove the cylinder heads. Before you can remove the cylinder heads you need to remove the pushrods. Rotate the crankshaft till both the intake and exhaust valves are closed. Back the tappet adjustment screws out then slide the rocker arms along the rocker shaft to make clearance for the pushrods to be pulled out. The pushrods will pull out easily when the rocker arms are slid out of the way. Now you can loosen the four nuts on the long studs that are holding the cylinder head on. Loosen each nut gradually in a rotational pattern until all are removed. Now slide the cylinder off being careful not to let the piston drop and strike the long studs or crankcase.

You can now inspect and measure the cylinder bore, piston and rings. You will need a bore gauge and digital calliper for measurements. Typically, Haflinger cylinders wear most at the top thus you will find a larger diameter at the top than the bottom on excessively worn cylinders.

For disassembly of the cylinder head you need a valve spring compressor. I have not found a typical automotive spring compressor that will work on Haflinger heads. There is a special factory tool for this and there are a few owners who have made their own version of this. I think Leonardo Castiglione has posted a YouTube video of his version.

The rocker shaft is a pressed in fit in the carriers and should not slide out too easily but is not excessively tight.

Don't be fearful of diving into your engine rebuild. These are very simple machines with a few little tricks to add interest. Just think your way through it and don't be shy about asking questions and posting photos. There's lots of Haflinger help available on this forum and in Canada so just go at it.

Cheers,
Steve
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heinkeljb
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by heinkeljb »

As mentioned above, if you are going to do a lot of work on the engine, it is better to take it out and put it on the bench (or floor) - If floor, a sheet of hardboard covered with a old bed sheet will A) soak up the oil drips, B) help you not lose things, C) Stop you engine from picking up dirt from the floor.

As this is the first engine you have taken to pieces, I will say it again:- In order to determine if the bores / pistons / piston rings are excessively worn, take them all, nicely labeled to a company that does engine rebuilds along with the repair manual - let them measure things and tell you. Otherwise you will have to buy micrometers / depth gauges / internal micrometers etc AND learn how to use them.

Take lots of pictures as you take it to pieces, you will find them invaluable when putting things back together.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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jhon
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by jhon »

Yakov wrote:The plugs I use are NGK B7HS.

Besides worn piston rings, is there anything else I can check for to stop this from happening? Can the issue be with the valves? I assume that I could try hotter plugs, but is there a potential danger or downside to that?

Hhhmm - I had a similar issue; before you strip your engine out I would recommend a compression check - if that is within acceptable range I would try going one plug range hotter.

My experience with NGK plugs is that once fouled they never work properly again and will continue to foul no matter how well you clean them each time.

I binned my NGK's and went one range hotter - the Haflinger now starts much better, fires on both cylinders and settles to a steady idle better than it ever did before - no issues with high-speed running either.

Worth a try.

Cheers,

John
Yakov
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by Yakov »

My experience with NGK plugs is that once fouled they never work properly again and will continue to foul no matter how well you clean them each time.

I binned my NGK's and went one range hotter - the Haflinger now starts much better, fires on both cylinders and settles to a steady idle better than it ever did before - no issues with high-speed running either.
That sounds like something I can do before the winter hits. I was planning on engine overhaul in the winter, when I can't drive it around due to snow and cold.

Should I try B6HS, or some other brand? What plugs do you use?


John and Steve,

Thanks for your input and support. I will attempt engine removal and cylinder disassembly this winter, as the problem doesn't seem critical and there is still some driving to be done. It's a farm vehicle, so until it starts snowing enough for snowmobiles, there are fields and fences to inspect.

I'll be sure to post photos and ask questions.
jhon
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by jhon »

[quote="YakovShould I try B6HS, or some other brand? What plugs do you use?

[/quote]

I went with Bosch W7AC, they seem fine.

http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/bosch-w7ac.html
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heinkeljb
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by heinkeljb »

B6HS and W7AC are listed as equivalent to each other so it would be a case of which you can get.

As suggested, an engine compression test could actually tell you a lot about he state of the engine. I would also make sure you plug leads are in good shape, they tend to get over looked when dealing with electrical issues. Using a timing light to check the advance would also be helpful.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Yakov
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by Yakov »

Thanks for everyone's input. What I ended up doing was adjusting the valves according to the manual and its been running fine since then on the regular plugs. Lately I've been finding B7HS plugs all over the farm here, so it must have had this issue for a long time before me.

The compression seemed normal to me, the problem cylinder even had more compression than the other one, but within 20% difference, if I recall correctly.

I haven't used a timing light before, but I was under the impression that one could test the timing by watching the plugs spark at the marks on the pulley, which I did on it a long time ago, but realized I don't know what I'm doing... Is a timing light more accurate or am I just a very confused amateur?
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heinkeljb
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by heinkeljb »

The use of a timing light is much more accurate in setting the timing as it includes all the wear in the system.

If you have a look at some of the threads regarding engine idle speed there is mention of a specific timing light which I have found to be very good as it allows you to see the RPM and to work out the degrees of advance (or retard) your timing is set at.

Anyway, no matter which timing light you get. a bit of white paint on the two timing marks makes them stand out. Connect the timing light up to the left hand cylinder HT lead, run the engine and point the light at he timing marks. If you timing is correct the marks will stand still and be separated by 5 ~ 7mm (the manual has a value, but there is some controversy about the measurement as virtually every other engine has timing quoted in degrees if it uses a wheel in the timing system and mm if it measures piston position).

You can actually adjust the timing slightly whist the engine is running by turning the distributor and watching the timing marks with the strobe lighting from the timing light.

If you need step by step instructions ask.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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AustHaflinger
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by AustHaflinger »

heinkeljb wrote:If you timing is correct the marks will stand still and be separated by 5 ~ 7mm (the manual has a value, but there is some controversy about the measurement as virtually every other engine has timing quoted in degrees if it uses a wheel in the timing system and mm if it measures piston position).
Yes has been discussed a few times - the repair manual Technical Data Page 0-1 has ignition timing at 4° 30' before TDC or 7mm before the TDC mark in the fan housing.

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
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kerry460
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by kerry460 »

G,,day . still reading bits as I get a chance .

spark plugs . the manuals I have all recommend Bosch W 5AC
it is all I have ever used for many years . work above 30 celcius and below 0 celcius air temperature .

I have experienced problems with others , but too long ago to remember .

cheers,
kerry
ex Tasmanian Haflinger agent .
1984 G Wagen 300GD auto
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AustHaflinger
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Spark Plugs - Aussie Haflingers.

Post by AustHaflinger »

My engine is back in the vehicle and just need to refill with oil (15w/40 Mineral) and put in the spark plugs. I have been running hotter plugs and who knows may have contributed to the detonation issues at high revs so I have decided to go back to specified plugs and see what happens. I have used NGK up to now but agree with others that they fail easily so would prefer to try something else.

I went to three local auto suppliers and tried to get Bosch W7AC or Bosch W5AC or NGK B7HS. None of these are carried and are a special order (Supercheap, Repco and Autopro).

So Kerry has used Bosch W5AC but what other plugs are Aussies using that are freely available in Aussie stores??

I can probably get the plugs at an independent local supplier after the holidays but want something I might get anywhere. For the moment I will just use the plugs that came out of the engine to get it going but want to put in new plugs before I actually start the run in process again on the road.

Cheers

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Oily spark plug

Post by AustHaflinger »

I went rummaging for some stuff in my parts bin and in the bottom were two unused NGK B6HS plugs so I have used them.

Still interested in what plugs other aussies are using.

Cheers

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
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