Zenith Carby Gasket

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heinkeljb
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Re: Zenith Carby Gasket

Post by heinkeljb »

The only reason for mentioning head gasket is that every body know where that is on an engine (If they work on engines ;) )

As mentioned, the noise "should" be obvious, but there is always a first time for not recognising a noise for what it is!

I am not disputing the oil into the combustion chamber of a horizontal cylinder should still do the things we expect it to do, like seal the ring to cylinder bore gaps that would cause loss of compression, but for the life of me I can't see it creeping up and over a 2 inch piston on just a single or double movement of the piston.

A broken ring ought to be making a distinctive noise, but it is very likely to be obscured by all the other noises created by the engine.

What it all boils down to, is that the cylinder head and barrel will have to come off to find out why there is low compression on that cylinder, and I understand Gary's frustration with it and the amount of time already spent on it for it to now require even more effort.

John

I am feeling the same way about the front nearside drive shaft oil leak I still have!
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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HaffyHunter
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Re: Zenith Carby Gasket

Post by HaffyHunter »

The barrel ideally just presses into the crankcase - handtight - same with the head - there is no gasket.
Hi Garry & John,

Actually the Haf engine does have something of a "head gasket". The top rim of the combustion chamber has a copper seating surface for the barrel flange to seal against. The copper ring is imbedded in the cylinder head casting and is not replaceable.

Cheers,
Steve
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Zenith Carby Gasket

Post by AustHaflinger »

HaffyHunter wrote:Hi Garry,

This is likely a foolish question but do you know if the ring gaps were properly adjusted during the last engine rebuild? Are the pistons you are using forged or cast? This makes a difference to ring gap. If the gap was too tight you could end up with a broken ring.

Cheers,
Steve
I don't know as they were installed by an builder - while I appreciate in some applications the rings have to be gapped, in most standard applications the rings do not have to be gapped as they are made to go straight in with a standard gap and it is the placement of the gap with respect to the other rings that forms the seal. But I don't know and will look at this if I do have tp redo the rings.
HaffyHunter wrote:Hi Garry & John,

Actually the Haf engine does have something of a "head gasket". The top rim of the combustion chamber has a copper seating surface for the barrel flange to seal against. The copper ring is imbedded in the cylinder head casting and is not replaceable.

Cheers,
Steve
I didn't know that - certainly not obvious on my spare heads.

Cheers

Garry
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Zenith Carby Gasket

Post by AustHaflinger »

heinkeljb wrote:
I am feeling the same way about the front nearside drive shaft oil leak I still have!
A morning's work out in the snow - easy peasy :o
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kerry460
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Re: Zenith Carby Gasket

Post by kerry460 »

i have never seen a copper ring .

there is the groove in the cylinder which helps the seal .
Steyr Puch were good , but to cast a ring into the exact location . i dont think so .

kerry
ex Tasmanian Haflinger agent .
1984 G Wagen 300GD auto
HaffyHunter
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Re: Zenith Carby Gasket

Post by HaffyHunter »

Hi Garry & Kerry,

You fella's have got me curious now about the embedded copper ring that is in my cylinder heads. This engine is the original in my 1969 Canadian spec Haf. The discovery of these rings was a bit of a surprise to me at the time of engine rebuild and I recall thinking I was very glad I hadn't got overly aggressive with cleaning tools before the grunge cleared away to reveal the copper. I also thought it was a very ingenious design by S-D-P but somewhat inconvenient to have to replace the entire head if some damage were to occur to the ring. It seems like the ring was cast in place but from Kerry's comment I now suspect the ring may have been pressed in then very finely machined. S-D-P would certainly have been capable of employing this technique to a very high detail. So, jumping forward to this thread, I took a look at some of my spare cylinder heads today. One spare set is from a 1967 motor and the other is from a 1968 motor. It does not appear that either of these sets have the copper ring but they are quite dirty so a cleaning is needed to be certain. I'd love to provide the group with photos of the 1969 heads that are in my truck but I had not thought to take any pics at the time of rebuild and really don't want to pull the motor apart when I get the truck out of storage in the spring just for the sake of photos. Maybe this can be done at a future date if the motor needs pulling for some repair.

So I now have a bit of a mystery as to whether my heads were an upgrade that was implemented from 1969 forward or was an experiment by S-D-P that they did not continue in later years due to problems or discovery that there was no real benefit to the extra expense and effort of installing the copper rings. I don't think this work was done outside of the factory as I'm quite certain that my 1969 motor had never been disassembled prior to my ownership.

Cheers,
Steve
kerry460
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Re: Zenith Carby Gasket

Post by kerry460 »

i have never seen this . but i have no answer as to how or why .
copper rings were a common modification on turbo motors some years ago , may still be .

kerry
ex Tasmanian Haflinger agent .
1984 G Wagen 300GD auto
pathfinder700ap
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Re: Zenith Carby Gasket

Post by pathfinder700ap »

Steve,

I also haven't seen these rings before... maybe an previous owner's modificaton?

Cheers,
Constantin
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Zenith Carby Gasket

Post by AustHaflinger »

I bought these MB Unimog carby insulating spacers

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390442078224 ... EBIDX%3AIT

Like the one I bought before these are 8mm thick not the 4mm that the Haflinger has - so while the hole layout is the same it would seem the Unimog spacers are in fact different to the Haflinger spacer.

I will see if I can find a belt sander and trim one down to 4mm and put it on.

After a break from the Haflinger where I sulked for a while and did work on my 101 I have moved the Haffie back into the garage - yesterday I removed the carb/manifold and after a cuppa I will go out and remove the exhaust then work out if I need to pull the engine to remove the head and barrel.
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Zenith Carby Gasket

Post by AustHaflinger »

garrycol wrote:
kerry460 wrote:personally i would not even bother to try it in place
kerry
Yes - but if I go to the extra effort of taking the engine out, then the gearbox has to come out and then I will have to find someone to rebuild it.
Ok - got the the inlet manifold and exhaust off - pushrods out and head bolts off - heads will ........................ see this new thread for the rest :lol:

http://thehaflinger.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3185
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heinkeljb
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Re: Zenith Carby Gasket

Post by heinkeljb »

Looking now!
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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