Zenith Carby Gasket

[AustHaflinger]

Well I give up.

I put everything back together, starts when cold straight away and idles nicely and have high oil pressure.

Took it for a drive and it is clearly down on power - last week it would cruise happily between 70 and 80kph and pull most hills in 5th gear and would easily pull 4500rpm in 5th. Today it will barely make 70kph in 5th and needs 4th or 3rd to climb any hill. I had to stop to take a phone call and it would not start, even rolling down a hill. After about 20 minutes I could get a bit of a fire up and later it started running but I had to keep revs up.

When I got back home family suggested it was time to get rid of it as it takes too much of my time - I tend to agree, it runs really well for a couple of weeks and then drives like a dog - has always been like that.

So it is going down to the temp garage and not get used so that I can get back to the things I should be working on. When I have a break form other things I will replace the spark plugs, do a compression test and redo the tappets again. But all these things were only done a few hundred kms back - as I said the car was running great last week and just suddenly went off song last Saturday.

So I will park it up and calm down and work on my 101. With the benefit of hindsight I think getting the Haffie was a mistake and I should have looked at getting this back on the road - it runs, is as capable as the Haffie and more robust.



Garry

[heinkeljb]

Gary,

I know how you feel.... When I saw the routine maintenance chart in the handbook, I did wonder how robust these things were. The fact they were originally a Military design project means they should have been "bullet proof" and require minimal maintenance, but done properly. They should have been capable of being fixed in the field without a "huge" pair of boxes with "special" tools, but that is obviously not the reality.

Lurch has similar "moments" of bad running, but so far, cleaning the jets seems to cure that. Next biggest headache on the horizon is the noise from the transmission. I think input shaft bearing.

Don't leave the poor Hafie down the shed too long or it will really require "effort" to get it going.

John

[jhon]

Hey Garry - sorry to hear of your problems; check your engine air filtration - it sounds like it's struggling to get enough air and could be fouling the plugs. Does your engine still use the oil-bath filter?

When I had poor running issues I went to a one stage hotter plug - that made a big difference.

Water in the carburettor could be a contributing issue too.

Good luck with it - try not to get too discouraged!

[HaffyHunter]

- it runs, is as capable as the Haffie and more robust.

Hi Garry,

Don't give up, you'll sort it out. It's a bit more challenging with your Haf as it has undergone several "unproven" modifications prior to your ownership but you'll overcome these issues eventually. If you've reinstalled the preheat tube blanking plate and still have the issues I'd change focus to the ignition system. I'm suspicious that the electronic module that you have installed in the distributor may be breaking down when hot. This may result in a weak spark that seems to be indicated by the fouled plugs.

As to the LR101, they may be many things but as capable as a Haflinger I assure you they are not and far from it if off-roading is your objective. The LR is simple and rugged but they certainly have lots of reliability issues so don't expect not to have frustration with one of these beasts too. As they say, been there and done that so there will never be another LR in my life.

Cheers,
Steve

[AustHaflinger]

Hey Garry - sorry to hear of your problems; check your engine air filtration - it sounds like it's struggling to get enough air and could be fouling the plugs. Does your engine still use the oil-bath filter?

When I had poor running issues I went to a one stage hotter plug - that made a big difference.

Water in the carburettor could be a contributing issue too.

I do run the oil bath filter but as with all things Haflinger the oil bath has to be removed to get the oil filter cover off so it is not currently fitted as I changed the oil filter two days ago. The paper air filter has only covered 1000km on normal roads so will be clean.

I have Iridium plugs fitted at the moment because the engine was killing the normal NGK plugs that were stage hotter - I might go one stahe hotter again and see what happens as the NGKs were getting killed off. The Iridium plugs worked well but are very very expensive.

There is no evidence of water in the system - I do have the watercatch bowl fitted before the fuel filter and while it has collected some red dust (from when the Haffie was used in the Aussie desert) form time to time there is no water. Also I had the carb apart the other day and there was no water or dirt in the bowl.

Thanks for those points - all good stuff to consider.

Cheers

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

It's a bit more challenging with your Haf as it has undergone several "unproven" modifications prior to your ownership but you'll overcome these issues eventually. If you've reinstalled the preheat tube blanking plate and still have the issues I'd change focus to the ignition system. I'm suspicious that the electronic module that you have installed in the distributor may be breaking down when hot. This may result in a weak spark that seems to be indicated by the fouled plugs.

Yes the original carb, inlet manifold, electronic ignition have all gone and replaced with original parts though the dizzy has a petronix module fitted now. You could be right about the ignition module breaking down but one of the reason I went that way was to get some reliability into the ignition as I know the condenser was suspect. The module has only covered about 800km so I hope it is still OK. I haven't blanked the carby heat pipes but have fitted the insulated spacer.

At the moment - I think I have two issues that are separate (maybe). When cool the engine runs and idles well but is down on power. When hot it will not idle and is still down on power. In the past the low power aspect has been caused by tight tappets causing valves staying open a little and dead spark plugs. I will look at this today.

When the Haflinger is going well it really goes great - and with it new high speed gears and 14" wheels and tyres is fast (for a Haffie) without over revving the engine, it is just that for some reason it goes suddenly off song for no apparent reason.

- it runs, is as capable as the Haffie and more robust.

As to the LR101, they may be many things but as capable as a Haflinger I assure you they are not and far from it if off-roading is your objective. The LR is simple and rugged but they certainly have lots of reliability issues so don't expect not to have frustration with one of these beasts too. As they say, been there and done that so there will never be another LR in my life.

Cheers,
Steve

I was actually referring to the series 1 in the above pic being as capable as the Haffie - even without difflocks it is a good as the Haffie overall and with difflocks would eat it up.

The 101 is mainly limited by its size and clearance under the diffs where the Haflinger has a size and manoeuvrability advantage but is limited by its stability. Overall my 101 which has difflocks is as good as A Pinzgauer off road and better onroad. It has fare more stability bit doesn't have the clearance under the diffs.

As John mentioned above, the Haflinger would never have worked in a warlike environment as it was too complex to easily maintain. The Pinzgauer replaced the 101 in the Brit Army and the Brits found the maintenance issue out when they were used in the middle east.

The old series 1 have under a tree in the back yard works but I have been trying to do an engine change in the 101 (go from 3.5litres to 4.6 litres and everytime I get going on it the Haffie gets jealous and chucks a sookie. .

Cheers

Garry

[HaffyHunter]

You could be right about the ignition module breaking down but one of the reason I went that way was to get some reliability into the ignition as I know the condenser was suspect. The module has only covered about 800km so I hope it is still OK.

Hi Garry,

The way your luck has run with your Haf you may have got a "duff" dizzy module. My limited faith in solid state devices would cause me to suspect that. Then again, my Haf is still running on its original point set without any issue. I did replace the condenser during the restoration but only because some previous schmuck had spliced its wire lead for some unknown reason. I do carry a spare points set and condenser just in case of a breakdown on the road.

You knew I named my Haflinger "Murphy" after Murphy's Law didn't you . I can laugh about it now but during his restoration it seemed like everything that could go wrong did. I hadn't expected that as I had spent much of my younger life surrounded by Haf's and can never recall a problem with them back then other than an occasional water logging whilst making river crossings or an overturn by the driver (me ) trying something stupid.

Cheers,
Steve

[Goatwerks]

I would suspect a coil breakdown before Pertronix module. Test your coil(must measure above 3 ohms if using Pertonix module ), if it is failing, try a Bosch blue VW Beetle coil (these work well and measure at 3.7-4.0 Ohms) usually around $39-$60(USD).

Side note: I had to change my original Lucas coil out over the summer, it was down to 1.5 ohms and was runnig like crap hot.
No damage to my module, (any coil above 3 ohms will work for testing/replacement).

[HaffyHunter]

Hi Jim,

Good point about Garry's coil, I had thought about that too but forgot to mention it earlier. Like I had said I have very limited faith in solid state devices, especially in automobiles, so the module came to mind first.

Cheers,
Steve

[AustHaflinger]

Yes - I agree with comments on the ignition.

The coil is a Bosch GT 40 new 12 months ago and only about 1500km use. When I put in the Petronix the coil resistance was in spec. I was tempted to use the wasted spark coil pack from the old ignition system I had on the engine but the coil pack was outside the Petronix requirement so was not used.

I will recheck the resistance to be sure though.

Cheers

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

To me the issue of the poor idle when hot and low power are not related so today I decided to look at the low power. First I checked the coil resistance which was 3.5ohms which is fine and there is plenty of spark.

In the past low power has been caused by the tappets closing up causing the valves to remain open - this was highlighted by a mechanic a year ago and when fixed full power came back immediately. In July last year the engine was reassembled and tappets set at .15mm (I cannot find why I set them at that as the book says .2mm - I sure I read it somewhere). In Nov last year having covered only 600km I had to retorque the heads after the rebuild and the the tappets had closed up again. On Kerry's advice I set them at .2mm and all was good - I threadlocked them so the adjusters could not move.

I checked the tappets again today (600km since the last adjustment) and both tappets on No2 cylinder had closed up and the inlet on No 1 had closed but but the exhaust was OK. I reset them all at .25mm - might chatter a little but should be OK.

So the big question is why do the tappets on Haflingers keep on closing up - I am not the only one with this issue and it also seems to be a historical issue. I use valve saver so is not valve regression - is it the cam and the followers that wear or what? I looked at the cam through the sump and my cam lobes seem fine.

So with the tappets adjusted, power should be back so I decided to do a compression test - last November both cylinders were just over 150psi. This time No 1 cylinder was at 150psi but No 2 cylinder is at 60psi - the engine will run fine on No1 cylinder by itself but will not run on No2 cylinder by itself. So that is the reason I have low power - only one cylinder operating. Spark is all fine.

I ran the engine without the rocker covers on and got exhaust gas out the push rod hole so my guess is there is a broken ring/s in number No cylinder or something like that - or less likely a burnt valve. Blow by also seemed to be pushing exhaust gas and oil out the breather pipe as well.

In theory If I pull the tinwork off I should be able to remove the head and barrel with the engine in place but I am not sure - yes the engine is only held in with 4 bolts but it is all the other stuff that has to be removed that is the pain.

If the engine does have to come out then so does the gearbox as it needs its input shaft bearings done.

So Haffie now gets retired for a year or so so other projects can proceed.

Garry

[heinkeljb]

If you have the inspection panels on the sides of the engine bay then I am sure you can remove the head and barrel with the engine in place.
Would be a real shame if it is a broken ring, but at least it would explain the low compression / bad running. Did you try putting some oil down the plug hole to see if the compression changes? If it goes up even a bit, then that would point to rings, if no change then probably valves not sealing for some reason.

Always the way, that something ends up idle when you have several vehicles to chose from.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Yes I do have the side covers but the issue is removing the exhaust, the inlet manifold and a few other things.

I just realised that my everyday driver has to go in for a small smash repair next week and will be off the road for a week. Looks like the Haffie will still have to remain running (one the one cylinder) to get me around - obviously for emergencies only.

After that I will park it up and I will start pulling it apart bit by bit as I feel like it and fix - the actual fix will not be hard either a hone and new rings (I have two new barrels, rings and pistons but I want to keep them as spares) or if a valve, a valve grind etc and reassembly - is the accessories that take then time.

We will see

Garry

[kerry460]

personally i would not even bother to try it in place
my best effort in removing a motor was 30 minutes .
a flange coupling on the exhaust helps
also the Austrian towbar with QD pins .

kerry

[AustHaflinger]

personally i would not even bother to try it in place
kerry

Yes - but if I go to the extra effort of taking the engine out, then the gearbox has to come out and then I will have to find someone to rebuild it.

[AustHaflinger]

I put some oil in the cylinder and did another compression test. A bit hard to see in this vid but still only getting about 70psi in number 2 cylinder. Here is the engine starting cold with no choke and running on number 1 cylinder only - starts to settle down to a nice idle of 750rpm at the end and sounds fine - but is only on one cylinder No 1 cylinder shows 150psi just on cranking rpm.

I didn't do it here but if you run the engine up to about 3000rpm compression on No2 gets up to around 100psi but I guess that is only because the gas mixture cannot get out of the compression chamber quick enough.

So whats the guess - burnt valve or damaged rings.

Click the pic to see the short vid - the needle is between 60psi and 90 psi - the phone would not focus well enough.

[heinkeljb]

Being a flat twin putting oil in the plug hole will make a pool on the lower edge f the piston. This may or may not be where the break in a piston ring is, so using oil might not show any change. The trick obviously works very well on vertical bores, so maybe for a flat twin we have to alter the technique a little.

How about lift the suspect side rear wheel up as far as you can get it. Then with both plugs removed, check compression on both cylinders, pour a teaspoon of oil in to the bore. Turn engine over a couple of times by hand to try and get the oil to coat the bore, then put the compression tester on and crank. I know this is probably not very different to what you have been doing, but hopefully having the engine at an angle will cause the small amount of oil to cover a larger area.

Personally, I am inclined to think it is valves, but even if you only get he head off, shouldn't that allow you to see scrape marks on the bore? Also if you have got as far as the head off, then taking the barrel of it not going to be much more work - You will have done all the rubbish jobs like taking the exhaust / Carb manifolds off. Tinware off, etc.

Could it be something as simple the top section of your barrel where it has been machined failing? Head gasket - I am use that would make extra noise, but maybe not.

John

[kerry460]

head gasket ??????????

cast iron barrel to aluminium head . no gasket !!!

kerry

[AustHaflinger]

John - oil in the combustion chamber of horizontally opposed engine does provide a wet test - not sure why but it does still work.

You are correct once the head is off there is no real further work to remove the barrel as it just pulls off. The barrel ideally just presses into the crankcase - handtight - same with the head - there is no gasket. The head just pushes on over the top of the barrel - hand tight interference fit - the heat from the engine tightens everything up.

My guess is a broken ring as there is some blow by coming out the oil filler. The question is why?? If it was as you mentioned a hole in the top side of the barrel the sound would be obvious - I will have to wait and see but will have to be in a few weeks.

Looking at it today, with the exhaust off the barrel should be able to be removed without taking the tinware around the barrel off and the piston inspected from underneath.

Cheers

Garry

[HaffyHunter]

Hi Garry,

This is likely a foolish question but do you know if the ring gaps were properly adjusted during the last engine rebuild? Are the pistons you are using forged or cast? This makes a difference to ring gap. If the gap was too tight you could end up with a broken ring.

Cheers,
Steve