It is currently Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:50 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:40 am
Posts: 245
Location: Cairns , Australia
A couple of weeks ago . I removed the engine because of a bad oil leak, oil was coming from every where due to high crankcase pressure. Unless you guys can think of any other cause, I think I have found the problem after speaking to Tony from Melbourne. when the engine was rebuilt the springs for the oil pump and oil switch were installed the wrong way round. I started cleaning everything up yesterday ready for rebuilding I could not see any other problems. I also noticed that there is a small oil leak on the gearbox on the intermediate plate where there is no gasket, could this be caused by the high crankcase pressure or is it just my bad luck. I used permatex aviation sealer when i did the engine and gearbox rebuild on all the surfaces. Tony recommended Loctite no. 3 , has anyone any other suggestions? before I remove the gearbox again to repair the leak.

Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:27 am
Posts: 1663
Location: Canberra Australia
I doubt that high crankcase pressures would be caused by oil pump issues. If you have high crankcase pressures I would would be looking for any piston blowby, or some blockage in the oil filler, particularly in the cap.

Where exactly are the oil leaks - if from high crankcase pressures and there are no blockages oil and gases should be coming out the breather. If there is a blockage it could force oil etc past the crank oil seals.

I have had oil leaks from the round sump plate gasket and around the oil filter etc but these have been the result of gasket failures etc and have been easy fixes.

Re the gearbox - sorry not sure where you are talking about there so not a lot of help there.

Good luck - oil leaks are a real pain. Mine mainly leaks for the swing arm fulcrums despite replacing the seals a couple of times.

garry

_________________
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:40 am
Posts: 245
Location: Cairns , Australia
The oil was leaking where the two cases mate together, I removed the dipstick and oil was pumping under pressure up the tube, I also pulled off the rubber tube from the cylinder head return at the top connection which is connected to the oil filler tube , there was oil under pressure coming from the tube. the filler cap breather and oil ways are all clear. pistons are all good with new rings fitted during rebuild. I had previously repaired leaks on the plate at the bottom of the engine and replaced cork gaskets on the r/h cylinder head . I think as I stopped one leak it put pressure on other parts causing them to leak. The pump and pump pressure switch have different rate springs ,these were installed in the opposite (wrong) positions during the rebuild.

Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:27 am
Posts: 1663
Location: Canberra Australia
ogdenenterprise wrote:
I also pulled off the rubber tube from the cylinder head return at the top connection which is connected to the oil filler tube ,


I am not sure I follow that, as the oil return from the cylinder head rocker cover is via a metal pipe at the bottom back into the sump with a rubber seal at the sump end. Certainly on my engine there is no direct connection between the rocker to the oil filler tube.

On some models the rubber hose on the oil filler vents to the atmosphere through the engine bay floor as mine does or it is connected to the air intake housing above the carb where crank gases as sucked in and burnt.

Have you got the plumbing rigged up incorrectly?

Garry

_________________
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:49 pm
Posts: 1831
Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK
I think you need to work out if the oil that is leaking is due to high oil pressure or high crankcase pressure. This is my understanding of how the oil system works on a Haflinger engine. It is entirely possible I have bits of it in the wrong order.

High oil pressure is obviously the result of the pump supplying high oil pressure and the pressure relief valve not doing it's job.

High oil pressure:

Oil in the sump
Oil pump "Sucks", primes the system from the pickup tube that goes into the oil strainer in the removable plate on the sump.

(If the pressure of the oil being pushed towards the engine from the pump is too high, it will force open the pressure relief valve and oil will be diverted back to the sump. Reasons for oil pressure to increase to the level were the relief valve has to work are down to blockages in either the machined gallery tube in the crankcases themselves, oil filter blockages, oil cooler blockages. It is also possible that the oil path through the crank itself is restricted).

Pump "pushes" oil round the system - unfortunately I don't actually know in which order these things are in the Haflinger engine, but it should go via the oil filter, oil cooler to main bearings. crankshaft, splash feed as far as the cylinder head valve gear, drain back to sump.

This is where an oil pressure gauge would be useful.

High crankcase pressure

High pressure in the crank case would be the result of pistons approaching the crank case, moving air towards the other side of the crank case. This should be equalized to atmosphere pressure by a crank case breather. On the later engines with the "emissions control" tube connecting the oil filler top to the carburettor air intake, the top should have holes round the inside of the cap which connect the centre part of the cap to the outside - it is possible these are blocked - take the cap off and dunk it in a solvent bath overnight.

High pressure in the crankcase can also be caused by worn rings / barrels allowing combustion gasses to be forced in to the crankcase. End result of this is oil escaping from any and all access points to the crankcase.

Unfortunately telling the difference between the two causes of crankcase compression is not easy. Probably the easiest way is to do a compression test on both cylinders using a teaspoon of oil is the barrels to seal the rings / cylinder and so decide if you are getting "blowby".

Oil coming out of the dipstick tube under pressure or at least in pulses in sync with engine revolutions suggests that your oil leak(s) are down to crankcase compression rather than high oil pump pressure.

Make sure you do not have too much oil in the crankcase as that can make a oil leak even if there isn't one normally!

John

_________________
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

Have you hit the "DONATE" button at the bottom of the page after reading this post? Many thanks if you have!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:40 am
Posts: 245
Location: Cairns , Australia
These are the parts I am talking about , both pistons and cylinders show no signs of any blow by.

Dave


Attachments:
20151207_174950.jpg
20151207_174950.jpg [ 3.33 MiB | Viewed 1614 times ]
20151207_174155.jpg
20151207_174155.jpg [ 3.49 MiB | Viewed 1614 times ]
20151207_174043.jpg
20151207_174043.jpg [ 3.64 MiB | Viewed 1614 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:27 am
Posts: 1663
Location: Canberra Australia
I have not seen a Rocket Cover oil return pipe like that with that junction coming off it. Checked the parts manual and there is nothing like that listed. What do you have this connected to? If you have the pipe on the oil filler cap going to this junction then I can understand crankcase pressures building up as the crankcase would not ventilate to atmosphere.

Likewise your oil filler pipe is different to the two versions described in the parts manual. Yours has an extra inlet/outlet added to the side of it. You have the standard filler pipe with the white cap but that other large pipe connection with a clip is not supposed to be there - look like the top section has been cut off another pipe and welded on the side.

I suspect these modifications are the cause of your issues.

But I am not sure - we need to have one of the experts to come along and have a look and comment.

Garry

_________________
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:38 pm
Posts: 192
Location: Graz, Austria
The pictures show the closed crankcase breather system. Ventilation is still possible, because the cover on top of the filler pipe has a connection with the air filter manifold that sits on the carb. The system ensures that the crankcase fumes are rather burned than released to the atmosphere.

The revised design of the oil filler pipe with a total of three covers (two of them with valves, one filler cap) is supposed to separate liquid (return flow via junction in valve cover return flow pipe) from gas fumes (ventilation via engine intake system).

Cheers, C.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:38 pm
Posts: 192
Location: Graz, Austria
Here is a picture:

Image

Like John, I also think that the valves with numbers 1 and 4 could cause the problem if they are mounted in the wrong way or if they are somehow damaged.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:27 am
Posts: 1663
Location: Canberra Australia
Thanks for that - is certainly what Dave has got - why isn't it shown in the parts manual though (well at least I could not find it). This indicates that there are three different oil fillers.

The parts book 1 15/0 only shows the filler that vents to air and the other that has the side filler only and vents back to the top of the carb. Likewise 1 01/0 does not show a rocker oil return tube with the junction in it.

Is there another version (better) of the parts manual that has these components listed - or have I missed something.

Cheers

Garry

_________________
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:38 pm
Posts: 192
Location: Graz, Austria
The version with closed crankcase breather system was only shown in the last version of the spare parts catalogue (1970 version with hand written extensions). The picture was taken from the manual of the Fiat 126 with Steyr-Puch engine, which had the same system fitted. A picture can be found e.g. on the Autoquariat website:

http://www.autoquariat.at/shop/haflinge ... euse-/?p=1


Cheers,
C.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:32 pm
Posts: 199
Location: San Bernardino Ca USA
Replace the rubber diaphragm(rubber disc in gasket kit) in the top cap of oil filler pipe, they get stiff with age. Also make sure cap hose is attached to the air box.

_________________
Cheers, Jim LaGuardia

http://www.goatwerks.com
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Goatwerks/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:58 am
Posts: 147
Location: Sydney Australia
I have the exact problem and for the life of me I could not figure it out, oil pressure everywhere, basically followed all the advice on the subject. I have the same set up and the same problem. So the solution that has worked for me is the following.
I removed the oil filler cap, I don't have the 2 filler caps just the one, but I do have the tee piece on the oil back flow pipe part number 501.2.0413.2.(valve carrier) and run a return rubber tube to the filler cap
I noticed in the filler cap, on my vehicle, that the valve carrier, part number 501.2.01.042.2 has a spring steel plate, the way it was mounted the plate opened upward when fitted allowing oil and pressure to flow up the Oil Filler pipe and down to the back flow pipe. To me this made no sense so I reversed it so the that the spring steel plate in Valve carrier stopped any pressure and oil coming up the Filler pipe and allowed pressure and oil from the back flow pipe to build up and open the valve and let it return to the engine. NO MORE PROBLEM.

I hope I have this right. but it is working very well. Any advice is welcome. Danny


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 7:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:40 am
Posts: 245
Location: Cairns , Australia
more head scratching, I rebuilt the engine again to reseal two halves of the engine casing and all the other places it was leaking oil. I have just replaced the seal on the distributor as when I started it there was a small leak. I have just fitted a temporary pressure gauge where the oil pressure sensor is fitted, according to the repair manual,page 2-16, I presume mine is a MK 2 as it is a 1968 model. it states idling pressure should be 21.3 - 42.7lbs and @ 4500rpm 56.9 - 78.2lbs.
on tick over mine is reading 60lbs and as I rev it it goes to approx 80lbs. can any one please help as I do not want to damage any thing with the high pressure and cause more oil leaks .

Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 8:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:19 am
Posts: 205
Location: Launceston Tasmania AUS,
have you got the correct springs on the mushroom valves .
valves are the same springs are not
kerry

_________________
ex Tasmanian Haflinger agent .
1984 G Wagen 300GD auto


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:40 am
Posts: 245
Location: Cairns , Australia
Hi kerry , I think I have them the right way round, I will double check tomorrow. I got 1 replacement spring from Tony Herlja it was all he had, I did measure it but the length and width was in between the 2 spring sizes quoted in the parts book, anyone got any spare springs which are the right sizes?, if you have please PM me.

Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:27 am
Posts: 1663
Location: Canberra Australia
When driving around my gauge shows between 60 and 70 psi so i dont think you have an issue but double check the mushroom valves. I did have mine out a while back and if I remember correctly as long as you do them before a few beers it is pretty obvious which way they go.

Cheers

garry

_________________
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 12:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:40 am
Posts: 245
Location: Cairns , Australia
I did some checking this morning with the 2 springs which Kerry was referring to , page 1/15 part no,s 21 & 54.
part 21, - 50mm x 7.5mm , mine is 49.08mm x 8.7mm
part 54, - 45mm x 8.5mm, mine is 44.55mm x 8.46mm this is the one on the left which is a lighter gauge spring. any comments from anyone

I also found some thing else while I was head scratching, I dont know what made me check the rubber pipe between the top of the oil filler and the carburetor, this was replaced on the original rebuild so I did not think to check it , and to my surprise I found that it was blocked, I haven't replaced it yet , but I will keep you informed as to the outcome.

Dave


Attachments:
oil pump springs.JPG
oil pump springs.JPG [ 1.38 MiB | Viewed 999 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:40 am
Posts: 245
Location: Cairns , Australia
Update
I put the parts back on the the engine, and tried it without the pipe from the filler to the carb, Im still getting 60 lbs on tickover, I then removed caps 1 & 2 and the oil filler cap as per Constantines drawing , the pressure dropped to about 55lbs but is not pumping oil out of these opening as they were when I started the subject.
I have just spoken to Tony Hrelja, one suggestion was checking the pump plates ,as they could have been fitted the wrong way round., the other was to remove the engine again to check if the oil holes on the big end are in line with the bearings. I will keep you up informed as I progress.

Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: engine oil leak
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 7:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:49 pm
Posts: 1831
Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK
Before you take the engine apart as far as the Crank shaft again to check on the oil hole, it might be worth making a plate with holes in the relevant places so you can take off the oil cooler and use two pipes as if you were going to mount a remote oil cooler. then you could rig up a clear section of tube or a container just so you can see if it is actually pumping oil round and not just building pressure on a static oil run.

That's a thought! Have you had the oil cooler off and cleaned it out? Maybe it is full of grunge and is acting a blockage?

I take it you have had the oil pump apart and compared things with what he manaual says they should be? Also have to had the oil pump scavange plate off the bottom of the sump and made sure the oil pipe is as it should be? If that has a kink in it that would affect your oil pressure.

John

_________________
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

Have you hit the "DONATE" button at the bottom of the page after reading this post? Many thanks if you have!!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group