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 Post subject: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:25 pm 
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Location: Southern California, San Diego area
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Also found out the block is from a Puch 500d

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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:24 am 
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Does it also have the 70 mm pistons? Or was the engine retrofitted with larger bore cylinders?


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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:57 am 
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80mm on this. Eric from the puch 500 forum said the 500 block is easily built into a 650, and that's what was done with this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:16 am 
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Just need to top off oil, triple check connections, and I think I'll have time tomorrow to light it off. Then the cleaning continues. If I'm lucky it'll be on the rolling under it's own power this weekend!

Image

Image

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Swiss 1963 700AP, Weber 32ICS carb, electric fuel pump, Black Diamond XTR 25x8x12 tires, Pertronix, civilian ignition and regulator system conversion, extra fuel filters, 4 point belts, NATO 3 color camouflage, Cobra CB radio, battery cut off switch


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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:08 am 
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Location: Canberra Australia
Looks as if it is coming together very nicely.

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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:26 am 
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Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK
Well done!

Post a video somewhere of it running and driving - always nice to see a new one driving around!

John

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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Yes, looking good, congrats on your progress!

I notice that you don't have the governor fitted - are you planning running without one or going with an alternative?


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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Thanks for the comments, I'll post up a vid once it's up and running.

Jhon - I bought it without the governor, so I've never gotten used to one. I run it by ear, but I'm not in the habit of pushing limitations either, I'm well out of that age group :D

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Swiss 1963 700AP, Weber 32ICS carb, electric fuel pump, Black Diamond XTR 25x8x12 tires, Pertronix, civilian ignition and regulator system conversion, extra fuel filters, 4 point belts, NATO 3 color camouflage, Cobra CB radio, battery cut off switch


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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:25 am 
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The Invacar engines also were not fitted with governor.
I thought initially that from the photo it was one from that application.
They were also 500 cc, believe some were unofficially converted to 650 using Haflinger parts.
One of the ones I have recently stripped has the late type spin on oil filter and later cam.

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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:29 pm 
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Location: Southern California, San Diego area
StuartR wrote:
The Invacar engines also were not fitted with governor.
I thought initially that from the photo it was one from that application.
They were also 500 cc, believe some were unofficially converted to 650 using Haflinger parts.
One of the ones I have recently stripped has the late type spin on oil filter and later cam.


Very interesting, I'll have to look into that bit of history. Thanks for posting the info!

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Swiss 1963 700AP, Weber 32ICS carb, electric fuel pump, Black Diamond XTR 25x8x12 tires, Pertronix, civilian ignition and regulator system conversion, extra fuel filters, 4 point belts, NATO 3 color camouflage, Cobra CB radio, battery cut off switch


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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Posts: 102
Location: Northampton
Photo of one

Attachment:
INVA CAR ENGINE 2.jpg
INVA CAR ENGINE 2.jpg [ 522.99 KiB | Viewed 1112 times ]



Attachment:
100_1803.JPG
100_1803.JPG [ 2.18 MiB | Viewed 1112 times ]


and one of the clutch end, this was a centrifugal type


Attachments:
100_1806.JPG
100_1806.JPG [ 913.38 KiB | Viewed 1112 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:18 pm 
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Location: Southern California, San Diego area
All back in, looks great....and doesn't want to turn over. LOL.

Pulling dynastarter now, checking brushes and continuity. Hopefully that's what it is from sitting for so long. In any case, can't hurt to check brushes, etc. That'll be one thing eliminated.

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Swiss 1963 700AP, Weber 32ICS carb, electric fuel pump, Black Diamond XTR 25x8x12 tires, Pertronix, civilian ignition and regulator system conversion, extra fuel filters, 4 point belts, NATO 3 color camouflage, Cobra CB radio, battery cut off switch


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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:43 am 
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Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK
Does the engine turn over by hand? Is it very stiff?

Would have been quick to take the belts off and see if the Dynastart turned over without the engine load on it. That's not really a conclusive test as it might turn over but have no power, but at least it would give you an idea of whether the Dynastart is basically sound.
They can suffer from overheated solder joint to the coils which mean they then don't produce all the power they should due to high resistance joints.

If you had the starting handle you could try getting it to run using that - just remember it uses the fan on the Dynastart to provide cooling for the cylinders so don't run it for too long with out the Dynastart / Fan in place and turning. You could also try bump / tow starting it, just to see if it runs!!

John

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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:45 pm 
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Location: Southern California, San Diego area
Engine turns over just fine, I'm pretty sure it's the starter solenoid contacts. Dynastarter brushes test out fine, and when I spin it by hand it registers a bit of voltage production on the meter.

I manufactured new battery cables, except for one that I re-used.

I'll break down the solenoid today and see what it looks like, but I'm sure it hasn't been touched since 1963.

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Swiss 1963 700AP, Weber 32ICS carb, electric fuel pump, Black Diamond XTR 25x8x12 tires, Pertronix, civilian ignition and regulator system conversion, extra fuel filters, 4 point belts, NATO 3 color camouflage, Cobra CB radio, battery cut off switch


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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK
If your Solenoid doesn't go "Clack" when you apply power to the energising coil, then probably the grease internally has dried up and is causing it to stick. Unsolder the energising coil terminals, one is a tag you can connect a wire to, the other is just a earth terminal. I did a "how to" which is here:- http://www.haflingerandpinzgauerclubuk. ... oid#Item_2

Might provide some help.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:55 pm 
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Thanks John,

Definitely got a good clack out of it, so it's engaging well. Right now I'm waiting for a sealant to tack out, but this is what I found...

Image
Image

Not absolutely horrible, but definitely needed a touch up.

After the battle:
Image
Image

Time for a bit of food, then I'll slap it back together and see what happens. The other issue might be that I used the original positive battery cable instead of replacing it. If this solenoid fix doesn't make a difference, then I'll be making a new cable, the old one definitely had some corrosion on it, but I thought I could get by.....we'll see.

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Swiss 1963 700AP, Weber 32ICS carb, electric fuel pump, Black Diamond XTR 25x8x12 tires, Pertronix, civilian ignition and regulator system conversion, extra fuel filters, 4 point belts, NATO 3 color camouflage, Cobra CB radio, battery cut off switch


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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:35 pm 
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Location: Southern California, San Diego area
LOL, magic smoke came out of dynastarter.

That's probably not good, eh? :D

Time to tear that down, the positive starter post was somewhat loose and I'm thinking that a short happened.

I did find a dynastarter rebuild article from an Isetta guy, I'll have to dig through that and see if it's any help. Or does anyone have an dynastarter shop manual, or rebuild manual? It's not like these are complex motors....but age will eventually start to affect stuff. Plus ham handed shadetree mechanics too!

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Swiss 1963 700AP, Weber 32ICS carb, electric fuel pump, Black Diamond XTR 25x8x12 tires, Pertronix, civilian ignition and regulator system conversion, extra fuel filters, 4 point belts, NATO 3 color camouflage, Cobra CB radio, battery cut off switch


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 Post subject: Re: Finally, back in
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:40 am 
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Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK
Usual scenario is that the engine wants to stop in a particular place every time, (compression on last run etc). This makes the Dynastart stop in one of two places. Every time you start, there is a spark, over time this erodes the brushes and the commutator.
You now have a couple of high resistance sections on the commutator, causing more sparks! So it goes on, Eventually it erodes the commutator out of round, then the brushes don't make proper contact and you get poor starting and charging. At this point, it can stick as it doesn't have enough torque to turn the engine, you keep the current flowing in the hopes it will start, then things start getting hot. Magic smoke can appear!!

What has probably happened is the varnish on one of the coils has burnt off causing a short inside a winding. You can buy new windings and with a good high power soldering iron, unsolder all the connections (making a note of where they all go). Replace with new windings and then get the commutator skimmed to make it round again. If you are unlucky, then the commutator will need to be re-wound...

I handed my Dynastart to a commercial firm to re-condition, Yes it was expensive, but they had to fix the thread on the end (which I mangled whilst changing the dynastart on a trip to Holland) and re-wind the commutator to make a new surface for the new brushes!

John

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Have you hit the "DONATE" button at the bottom of the page after reading this post? Many thanks if you have!!


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