Poor Lurch - Engine making horrible noises!

[heinkeljb]

This is getting complicated!

Been offered some cranks, but now have to try and work out is I can get bearings to fit them. If they need grinding, then I need to know if I can get bearings to fit the new sizes!
I could go for a DSS engine (500cc fitted to a UK invalid carriage) - apparently running, which would mean I could probably take the crank straight out of that and fit in my crank cases if all the other bits on my crank cases are useable.
I could take a chance on a Non-running DSS engine - apparently pistons seized, but who knows without dismantling it).
I could go for a crank which needs a re-grind - see above.
I could go for an early Haflinger engine, but internal condition is unknown. Turns over, and has some compression but who knows how much?
Or I could go for a good used crank with suitable bearings already with it.

I suppose the last one is really dependant on the useability of all the other components of my engine following the broken crank issue.

Decisions, decisions, decisions!

John

[jhon]

^^^ Feel for you John! Unfortunately I'm not in a position to offer you any advice, help or parts, but hope things work out for the best.

Never a dull moment with Haflinger ownership; at least you're becoming even more knowledgeable!

[AustHaflinger]

I am the same as I just do not know. I am not familiar with this DSS invalid carriage - do they use a haflinger engine? 500cc seems a bit small but has this engine have the same crank with a smaller bore to reduce to 500cc.

Whatever crank you end up getting you will need to see what bearing sizes are easily available and get the crank machined to match the appropriate size.

Good luck with this.

Garry

[Julian B]

Garry - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invacar

Those of us in the UK of a certain age will remember seeing a fair load of them around.

For some reason I have a "never used, factory re-built" DHSS (Dept of Health & Social Security) engine in the barn which I have kept in case it is ever needed. Not sure of cc, but probably 500cc.

[AustHaflinger]

Ok thanks for the link - now I lived in the UK from 1982 to the end of 1983 and I never saw any of these things - saw plenty of those awful Reliant Robins disgracing themselves on roundabouts but not these Dss things.

I am making an assumption here but I assume that the 500cc, the 600cc and the 642cc (Haflinger) engines all have the same crankcase with the same crankshaft but to get the different capacities by having different bores or even different strokes via different conrods but other than capacity I cannot find what the differences between the engines actually are.

Good luck John

Garry

[Julian B]

Garry, believe me - the DHSS Invacars made Robin Reliants look well posh

Here is a photo of my "factory overhauled" engine; it still has its label saying "This engine contains no oil. Do not run before filling to the correct dipstick level. This engine also contains new parts. Please run in." Externally at least it looks just like a Haflinger engine. They included some form of variable transmission made by AC (of AC Cobra fame )

The serial number is 5252248, which is different from the Haflinger engines which all started with 535xxxx or 536xxxx.

[heinkeljb]

The engine I have "borrowed" to put in when I have finished welding up all the really rusty bits on the engine sidewalls is a "DSS" bottom end with machined cases to take VW barrels and Subaru pistons ~ 700cc, so yes, same cases just altered bore and stroke depending on the compression ratio you had.

500cc in a Invacar equates a bit like having enough power to make a Haflinger go at 60 MPH!! Gearing allows you to set top speed for most old low horse power engines.
My Heinkel 3 wheel bubble car has 197cc and possibly 10 bhp and they were test back in the day to 57MPH.

643cc in a Haflinger can seem gutless, so putting a 500cc with probably less than 20 BHP would make if positively snail like... I daresay an early Haflinger with the slow hubs probably wouldn't notice the difference.....lol.

John

[heinkeljb]

Julian,

Shouldn't you put some oil (to the correct level) in it and then take the plugs out and use an electric drill to turn it over to push some oil through everything. Also whilst you're at it, put some oil down the plug holes and cover the holes with some cloth whilst you crank it over to coat the bores and valves?

John

[Julian B]

John, I had wondered about that, but it had been with someone else for ages before I got it, so wasn't sure of the benefit. But perhaps I should.

[AustHaflinger]

Here you go John - your chance to upgrade to a 1000cc engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCp0PjQ5XpE

[heinkeljb]

Very nice, but probably a one off judging by all the work that has gone into it. Also unknown at this point is how reliable it will be!
Stretching everything to it’s limits means it is likely to break something sooner rather than later.

John

[robw]

First time I've posted on here but you may be interested to know (now that you have it all in pieces) that i have had my Haflinger engine rebuilt by the guys at Boghoppers in Ramsbottom. They have put in VW pistons and cylinders which i believe were not expensive and as a result oversized it to i think 780cc (from memory).
I understand that the only real difficulty was the gudgeon pins that were the wrong size and so there was some sleeving or grinding to make it fit. The result is an engine that looks absolutely original but has the power to drive normally in traffic and with the higher speed hubs installed can actually achieve the promised 47mph even on a slight uphill slope.

Might be worth considering whilst it's all in bits !

[Julian B]

Welcome to the forum, robw !

[heinkeljb]

Nice thing to do to a DSS engine (500cc) but shame to do it to a standard Haflinger engine at 643cc, unless you have to. If i can find a suitable crankat a price I can afford, I will rebuild the engine as standard.

As mentioned, using VW piston has an issue with gudgeon pins being the wrong size. This runs a very real risk of this turning into the engine achilles heel.

John

[AustHaflinger]

i have had my Haflinger engine rebuilt by the guys at Boghoppers in Ramsbottom. They have put in VW pistons and cylinders which i believe were not expensive and as a result oversized it to i think 780cc (from memory).

Robw - welcome to the forum.

If you do a search of my threads in the engine section you will see I have quite a history with larger bore engines - my engine is 762cc. If you getting a 780cc engine you should have a rethink on that as you will have the largest bore barrels and these have a history of failures due to the liners being too thin and warping when hot. I went for the the next size down which has a good reliability record.

Anyway we do not want to divert discussion away from John's very important task, so discussion on modified engines should not go here - after looking as some of my sagas with broken pistons causing engine failure, if you would like to start a new thread I would be happy to compare notes.

So John - I take it that you have not been able to source a suitable crankshaft at this stage.

Cheers

garry

[heinkeljb]

Yes and no!

As listed above, I have been offered various options but they either require further investigation or are very expensive.
Options that involve engines will still require the engines to be stripped to remove the cranks which would then need inspection. If they require grinding then it is only when that is done can I see if there are bearings that will fit.... catch 22. Who wants to pay for grinding on the off chance you can get bearings to fit. Running / turning over engine might still have issues with crank bearings so you still need to check them!
So still looking for the best option
John

[Julian B]

John, I used Allbore Auto Engineering in Newhaven to re-hone my barrels a few years ago - they might be able to help? I have also heard good things re: Southern Rebore Services in Uckfield (01825 733659).

HTH

[heinkeljb]

Thanks Julian,

Will see if I can take the cranks down to them to see what they think.

John

[heinkeljb]

Engine is in, has gone "splutter" but the battery has been used for 4 weeks, so didn't have enough "umph" to turn the engine over enough times to get it running properly. So battery on charge tonight and I will try again tomorrow evening.

Will have to do some "fettling" of the rear closing bar as with the rubber seal on it, it doesn't fit on to the bottom tin ware.I think I will just have to put the tow bar on and get a big ratchet strap and see if I can bend it to fit!!!!

John

[AustHaflinger]

Engine is in,

Is this the loaner engine or did you magically get your old engine rebuilt over the past week.

Garry