some new things...

[Rabbit 16v]

So, I put a BN2 in and of course it requires proper voltage to start. This leads to last weekends situation. Engine at operating temp, but holding high rpm for a while (10 mins or so) to get the heater started. Oil level was full prior to this. Today, started it up and the oil light is now on at idle with full oil. Not looking good. No bad noises though.

So, this thing consumes a lot of oil for some reason. Im not sure what to make of it. It was low one litre from yesterday to today and run time was only maybe two hours total. I assume this is not common.

Any thoughts or advice here? It does leak from the rocker cover gaskets, but they are new. Im hoping to make it to a Treffen (my first one) this year, but obviously if I need to rebuild the engine, thats right out.

If I rebuild it, are there overbore liner and piston kits? I would probably also add fuel injection and turbo charge it. Yes, I make poor choices.

[heinkeljb]

Welcome to the world of Hafliinger's!

Oil loss needs to be addressed obviously. Cure the rocker cover leaks first. Then read up in the workshop manual about the oil pressure valve. Replace the oil pressure switch or put in an oil pressure gauge (preferably both). Low oil pressure can be down to worn pump, oil pressure valve not sealing properly, main bearings worn.
Oil is loss is down to the following items. Worn piston rings / valve guides, you would see gray /blue smoke from the exhaust as a constant stream from worn rings, as a burst of smoke when blipping the throttle if the guides.
Oil loss to the outside of the engine via oil drips - common places, rocker covers, tappet tubes where they join the crank cases, Oil cooler to crank case joint, oil sump strainer, oil filter.

Having aid that, yes they do use a fair amount of oil, but it is more noticeable in these engines because they do not have a lot of oil in the engine in the first place! Oil changes are every 1200 miles, but I would expect to have to top up the oil at least once in between services. The work shop manual, or is it the User / operators manual (?) has a statement as to oil usage per Mile / KM if I remember correctly.

No overbore liners, unless you have some made, but I doubt the cylinder walls are thick enough to allow for them.
Over size pistons allowing a rebore were available when the Haf was in production, quite what you can get now - European suppliers might have something.
Fuel injection and turbo charging have been done, but I have never seen any reliability data for engine that have had that done to them!

So called big bore kits have been done based on VW Beetle barrels, pistons are problematical due to the con rod little end size. Subaru pistons have been used, but I couldn't tell you which model they come from. Only major issue with VW barrels's that you have to machine the block to take them, plus machining on the barrels and the heads!

John

[Rabbit 16v]

Thanks John. I will probably start by fixing the leaks and perform an oil change. I had no idea 1200 mile intervals were the thing.

Interesting about the pressure relief valve. I didnt even think of that. If the light still comes on after the oil change, I will be checking pressure next and if thats low, then in I go for the other stuff.

As far as oil consumption goes, its way more than a litre every 1200 miles. I suspect Ive put about 15 litres in over the period of 1500 miles. Oddly, the only time there is any blue smoke is if its been sitting a while and it does it just a bit on cold start for maybe 10 seconds then clears up. I dont think the oil leaks are the main reason for the oil loss. It must be burning it through the rings I suspect. It only has about 40,000 km on it though, but of course that doesnt mean the rings cant be stuck. I might run a litre of atf through it before doing the oil change just to see if that will free them up.

I sent Dale an email this morning to see if he had any over sized pistons.

I just hate to go through all the work and end up with no real improvement in performance. More power would certainly be the goal.

Thanks again!

chris

[heinkeljb]

Chris,

Have you got the workshop manual, the exploded parts diagram book and the User's handbook? If not there are copies of early books on line at goatwerks.com - service intervals for oil changes, grease points, brakes, filter changes types of oils and quantities are all listed. How to set the points, servicing the front repeeiza joints (CV joints) etc are shown in the user handbook.

John

[Rabbit 16v]

Ja, I have all those. The workshop manual is the biggest joke of all manuals Ive ever read, haha! I usually only refer to it for data like points gap, valve lash, and stuff like that. Trying to decipher sentences from it is ridiculous. I mostly rely on the parts diagram for info.

[AustHaflinger]

OK - where is the oil going??? 1 litre down is a lot - if being burned then would be obvious from the exhaust - expect a bit of smoke on start but by the time it is warm there will not be any smoke visible - loosing the amount you have indicated if it was being burnt you would have very think smoke - like fog.

If the oil is not on the floor and you have not smoked out the neighbourhood then the oil is still in and about the engine somewhere. First - ensure the plug in the bell housing is out - any oil escaping from the rear crank oil seal could build up in the bell housing if the plug is still in place.

Second - the Haflinger does have an issue with blocked oil return pipes from the rocker covers. The oil builds up in the covers and cannot get back to the engine - when you take the rockers off to fix leaks make sure there is a clear path for oil top get back to the engine.

Good luck with it - as I said if you are not smoking the neighbour hood out when the engine is warm and the oil is not on the floor - then it is still in the engine of course.

My comments above do ignore the obvious measuring of oil level error.

Oil light can mean low oil, blocked pickup, worn crank bearings, or a faulty sensor.

Garry

[Rabbit 16v]

I really dont know. I mean, I work on cars for a living and it seems baffling to me as well. The leaks do not explain the amount of loss and there is not enough smoke to indicate as such. Maybe a little blue smoke on start up after sitting, but nothing crazy.

what is this plug in the bell housing you mean? The clutch is not slipping and there is no seepage from the bell housing area.

Interesting about the blocked return pipes. I did get new seals for them since its leaking there. also leaking at the rocker cover gaskets which are pretty new. I wonder if this is the root of the oil consumption issue?

I havent had a chance to check the oil pressure yet or get back to it. Other projects took precedent for now.

Incidentally, what do you mean by oil level measuring error?

thanks again!

[AustHaflinger]

what is this plug in the bell housing you mean?

Incidentally, what do you mean by oil level measuring error?

Like most offroad vehicles, there is a threaded hole at the bottom of the bell housing that a plug can be screwed into. Normally the plug is removed allowing and oil (from crank leaks or the gearbox) or debris in the bell to drain out to stop contamination of the clutch. When fording deep water or mud running the plug (is called a wading plug) is inserted to stop water entering via the hole - after offroading is completed the plug is removed so that and water that did enter can drain away.

See my pic - you can see the hole in the center of the pic

If you have the plug inserted, oil can be building up inside the bell housing - so check you do not have the plug in for normal running around. You can see the area around my drain hole is all wet indicating my crank seal leaks a little but is not detectable on the dipstick.

Oil level - measuring error - means simply if you do not measure the oil level with the vehicle on a flat surface when the engine had been off for more than about 10 minutes you will get false readings - noting that unlike most vehicles the haflinger dipstick comes in at a very shallow angle so it is important that the vehicle is on a level surface when measurements are taken. I can get my dipstick to read low or high simply based on the position I park my vehicle.

Good luck with it.

Garry

[Rabbit 16v]

Updates!!

So, idk what was up. Maybe a stuck relief valve or something. Took it to work this morning to perform some tests. Everything worked normall and light worked as it did.

oil leaks? Well, I didnt know you need to retorque the rocker covers after a valve adjustment. Loose as hell. Leaks resolved.

I am happy again! Well, at least about the haffie!

[AustHaflinger]

oil leaks? Well, I didnt know you need to retorque the rocker covers after a valve adjustment. Loose as hell. Leaks resolved.

Hmmmm - what made you think the rocker covers did not have to be bolted up tight after taking them off and reinstalling after doing the valves? The resultant oil leak would have been obvious.

Irrespective it is great you have resolved this issue.

Great to hear.

Garry

[Rabbit 16v]

Well, when I put the rocker covers back on, they were tight. So I suspect that maybe heat cycling combined with a cork gasket are the reasons why it started leaking. The leaks didnt start for a good while after I did the valve adjustment.

Ja, Im happy it was an easy fix! No on to the winch installation, lol!

[Rabbit 16v]

Ok, so following up here. I let a kid drive it and told him not to take it out of K gear. Well, kid and "he" being the combo, he put the governor to work. After which, we went back to oil light on. Drove it to work today and put a gauge on it. Nothing at idle. 40psi at 2k rpm. So, did an oil change and checked the pressure relief mushroom thingies. Nothing looked odd with them. Put it all back together and its fine now. 35psi at idle when cold. Happy with that.

Now, does anyone have a theory on why this is happening?

I ordered a turbo the other day too.... Anyone know where to get fuel injection intake manifolds? lol!

[AustHaflinger]

Maybe the pressure relief valve had been sticking open but not sure. Low oil level maybe? On my vehicle, when I have low oil level, I can have zero pressure on the gauge but the oil pressure light does not come on so some pressure is still being generated because the oil pressure does work well. Normally I have about 40psi at idle and 70/80 psi when running but if it drops to below about 55psi when running I know it is time to check oil level - it normally takes 1 litre at this point.

Garry

[heinkeljb]

I would suggest you stick some oil flush in your oil and run it for how ever long your particular oil flush liquid says. Then drain and fill with clean oil, new oil filter. Get the oil level correct so you have a good starting point.
Different oil gauges unless they are calibrated might give different values for the same pressure. So basically you are using any given gauge as reference point not as an absolute value.
So from your good starting point, you can now monitor things.

I suspect what happened is that the high revs dislodged a bit of dirt which got stuck on the oil pressure relief valve and allowed some pressure leakage. Taking the valve to pieces then removed the obstruction allowing normal operation to resume. It does not take a very big bit of dirt to upset the oil pressure.

I would at some point take the oil pump off and check the clearances involved. Workshop manual has the values as far as I remember.

John

[Rabbit 16v]

Well, I just changed teh oil with a new filter as well. I might install a gauge too.

I agree on the high revs possibly dislodging something. Granted, super hard to tell if there was anything blocking anything.

Probably not going to take the oil pump apart since intermittent oil pressure loss wouldnt be consistent with wear on the pump.

[heinkeljb]

Oil pump is the heart of the oil circulation system and so any issues with it will have consequences elsewhere in the engine. I agree wear in the oil pump is not likely to produce intermittent oil pressure, but a broken tooth might. Obviously, unless you take it apart you can't check for that.
All I am saying is that there are not many moving parts in the oil system that could produce swarf that are easy to check like the oil pump. You have the various bearings that might cause it. Other source is dirt from the outside world.

Fitting a gauge is a good idea as it gives you a reference value to monitor.

John

[Rabbit 16v]

Thanks John, thats a good point. Do oil pump teeth break on these commonly?

[heinkeljb]

Not that I have heard of, but there again, have you heard of a crank shaft breaking in two? Happened to me and then I heard of two others. So although not common, it can happen.
I hope for your sake that it was nothing more than a small bit of something which came travelled around the oil and hopefully got caught in the oil filter.

Governor hopefully did it's job and kept rev's to lower than absolute maximum. I wouldn't be too worried about letting a child who can reach the pedals learn to drive in it. Very good tool for teaching steering at a safe speed. If you have the space, why not set out a track using bamboo canes? Set them up in pairs slightly wider than the Haf and then drive from one pair of canes through the next pair without touching them. The basis of the 10 gate Trials. As progression from Gate 10 down to gate 1 gets harder and your not allowed to stop or cross your tracks from the previous gate - you can have a lot of fun doing that.

John

[Rabbit 16v]

Ja, I hear you there. I have heard of cranks breaking, but not specifically Hafi cranks.

I think it did its job. Hes a pretty smart kid and I think the main reason it was on it was because he wanted to go faster. We have 5 acres to play on, so plenty of room the practice and offroad. A course would be fun though! Good idea!

[Rabbit 16v]

So, just a follow up here. Had an incident where power kept getting lower and lower until it basically was running so rich that it couldnt get out of its own way. After some quick troubleshooting, I determined the air cleaner had decided to be an air stopper. This air cleaner had been in it since I got it. It did appear slightly dirty, but nothing that I would normally be concerned with. I removed it for temporary testing and I am completely blown away. Sooooo much more power. 5th gear is no longer something I consider a cruel joke. AND, no more oil consumption. Pretty sure we know what the oil consumption issue was now. Plus, I seem to be getting better fuel economy as well. So, figured I might mention it in case anyone else runs into this. Oil light still not coming on again when it shouldnt.