Choke

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AustHaflinger
Posts: 2465
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:27 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Choke

Post by AustHaflinger »

The choke on my Haffie was disconnected when I bought it - the cable had been moved from where it should come out in the engine bay to the opposite side of the carby. All the choke cable mounting hardware had been removed from the carby. The engine started OK but as we are now mid Autumn here it is starting to get cooler in the mornings and the engine while firing first up had problems continuing to run so it was time to reconnect everything as it should be.

I had a couple of spare carbs in the spares that came with the vehicle so I took the mounting hardware from them and moved the cable to the right hole and connected it all back up.

Now starts fine and the choke all works great but the choke function opens the main butterfly a bit too much so that if you pull the choke right out it starts right away but the engine goes to fairly high revs - maybe too high for a cold engine. Pulling the choke out half way the engine revs are good but the choke butterfly does not fully close - not an issue at current temps but may cause some issues with mid winter temps.

Normal idle is fine so is not an idle adjustment issue as such. So is there a way to reduce the amount the main butterfly opens via the choke.

Thanks

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
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pathfinder700ap
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Graz, Austria

Re: Choke

Post by pathfinder700ap »

Hi Garry,

the choke system doesn't have any influence on the main butterfly. It is more or less a "carburetor in the carburetor" that allows to richen the mixture when the engine is cold, because in this case, a lot of fuel is "stuck" on the intake pipe walls.

Which parts did you replace on the carb? Are you sure that everything is properly connected? Can you maybe post some pictures?


Kind regards,
Constantin
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AustHaflinger
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Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Choke

Post by AustHaflinger »

I will post up some pics in the daylight tomorrow however here are some pics of my parts carby - you will note the choke cable clamp on the side of the carby and the nut and bolt arrangement that the inner cable connects too are missing - these are now on my fitted carby.

There is an external linkage that connects the choke actuator to the main butterfly actuator so when the choke is opened the main butterfly opens a little and the accelerator pump also gives the carby a squirt of fuel.

This pic shows the carby with the choke off - note the linkage to the right and the position of the linkage of the main butterfly. (ignore the curved bit - is on the parts carby but not the one fitted to the vehicle)

Image

This pic has the choke on - note the linkage has moved the butterfly linkage down and cracked open the butterfly. It opens about 1/8".
Image

This arrangement does not jell with your comments so maybe I have a different arrangement to other Haffies. I guess if I removed the connecting linkage then the carby would work as you suggest - no enrichment via the main butterfly and accelerator pump and only by cutting air supply via the choke butterfly.

Cheers

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
pathfinder700ap
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Graz, Austria

Re: Choke

Post by pathfinder700ap »

Hi Garry,

I expected the Pallas Zenith 32 NDIX carburettor in your Haflinger, which, I think, would be correct for your model and year of make. Another carburettor that was usually used on older Haflinger models is the Weber 32 ICS. Both are not shown in your picture. What carburettor brand/model is yours? Do you have Zenith carburettors among your spares? I guess that your intake manifold was also changed because the Zenith carb has two barrels and hence a special flange:
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The choke system on this carburettor can be seen in picture two and three.

Kind regards,
Constantin
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AustHaflinger
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Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Choke

Post by AustHaflinger »

Thanks Constantin - you last post has clarified everything - I actually have a Solex 34 PCI on my engine. In my spares I have an old Webber but also the carcasses of 3 other Solex carbies - no Zeniths at all.

When my Haffie was advertised it said the capacity was 750 something CCs that I dismissed as a typo - however working on the vehicle I found a 123\Fiat Electronic Ignition System, no distributor as such and coil packs firing the spark plugs. The exhaust had a large bike muffler on it and the exhaust manifolds were not original so it looks like the engine has had some major mods done to it. It does have the correct engine number.

In the morning I will disconnect the linkage between the choke and the main butterfly and see how it starts just on the choke restricting air intake. I have changed the muffler back to the correct one so am now a bit concerned that it might strangle the engine a bit.

Cheers

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
HaffyHunter
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Location: Canada

Re: Choke

Post by HaffyHunter »

Hi Garry,
The Solex carb was also used on Series 1 Haffy's and was a slight improvement over the Weber for reliability and flow. The intake manifold is the same for both the Solex and the Weber but the Zenith is a 2 barrel carby and has a completely different mounting flange on the intake. The Zenith is not interchangeable with the Solex or Weber unless you also change the intake manifold.
As to your post question, I believe the linkage arms (bell cranks?) are slightly adjustable on the throttle and/or choke shafts which should give you a lower cold (choke on) speed. Loosen the locking nuts and see if there is some rotational movement of the bell crank available. A small change of 1 or 2 degrees rotation will make a big difference in idle speed. If my guess of adjustability is wrong you can try bending the linkage rod slightly as a means of changing the speed.
Cheers,
Steve
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Choke

Post by AustHaflinger »

Thanks Steve - great information.

Concerning the revs I may be worrying about nothing. As I had put all air filter back on I decided not to disconnect the linkage for the engines first start on a cold morning with the choke connected. With full choke the engine fired immediately and settled at 1200rpm running smoothly - closing to 1/2 choke the engine settled back to 1000 rpm running smoothly but as the engine started to warm revs started to rise. Closing the choke brought the engine running at 900rpm and running smoothly.

So it would seem that a little bit of technique is needed and only using full choke to fire up the engine. If full choke is maintained revs rise as the engine gets warm and can overspeed. Going to 1/2 choke after start seems to be the go for a successful start.

So this all begs the question - why remove the original dual throat Zenith carby and put on the Solex 34PCI? Is the Solex able to provide higher air flow and fuel mix? I have googled it but not really found a lot of information other than it was fitted to some VW 1200cc engines but also to smaller BMW and other engines around the same size as the Haffie engine.

I really do need to contact the owner who did all these modifications to find out why.

Cheers

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
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Rick K
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Choke

Post by Rick K »

Hi Garry

I wonder if this helps explain why you had those exhaust issues. I there was a non standard inlet manifold (???) to accommondate the Solex carby, meaning the exhaust manifold will be out of usual alignment, resulting in your muffler being out of alignment. If ultimately you did want to go back to original, the Zenith NDIX carbys ( and the manifolds) come up on the German eBay site quite regularly, and kits to recondition them can be found here in Australia at the Carburettor Service Company in Burwood. They have reconditioned several Zenith and Weber carbys for me, and have become familiar with the mighty Haflinger. Cheers. Rick
1963 Haflinger 700APTL (ex- Hydro Tasmania)
several Puch scooters[/size]
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AustHaflinger
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Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Choke

Post by AustHaflinger »

Thanks Rick - the inlet manifold is standard but has an adaptor plate brazed to the inlet port to take the carby - but you are correct about the exhaust side as the pipes do hang down lower than they should.

I will leave things as they are at the moment - at least until I find out what I actually have engine modification wise. The ignition system has had a lot of money spent on it and I spoke to the Aust Agent for the 123/Fiat Ignition system, he actually did the installation work and indicated it is a one off. He gave me the contact details of the then owner so I will contact him later this week and hopefully many of my questions will be answered.

I will keep an eye out on ebay for some bits.

Thanks

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
HaffyHunter
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:12 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Choke

Post by HaffyHunter »

So this all begs the question - why remove the original dual throat Zenith carby and put on the Solex 34PCI
Probably two reasons for the carb change to Solex.
1) The Zenith is a complicated pain in the butt until you get a really good understanding of its interworkings. Once you've mastered the Zenith beast it's a very nice carb.
2) Your Solex is a 34 (vs. the normal 32) which means you have a 34mm venturi for higher flow. This also explains your comment regarding the modified intake flange.

Your latest description of the starting procedure using the choke is pretty much as is described in the Haflinger Operating Manual so all sounds fine to me. :D

Cheers,
Steve
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