Front Diff Removal

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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

Yes - thanks Jim (I hope so).

When I got the Haffie it had an oil leak for the oil seal at the hub end of the swing arm and was pumping oil out when being driven and the oil level was low when I bought it. That was one of the first jobs I did to replace the oil seal and speedie sleeve the shaft.

I suspect that in the past it has been driven with low oil in the diff and caused an overheated bearing in the diff (one of the ones you mentioned) - enough to damage but not destroy and will correct oil level has continued to work albeit with a bit of noise. The noise has always been there (and is annoying) but has not got worse.

Cheers

Garry
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

Front diff is out and disassembled.

Crown wheel side bearings seem OK but I will replace as a precaution.

The pinion needle bearing seems OK but again I will replace as a precaution.

The pinion double bearing - I am not so sure of. When I knocked the pinion shaft out, the inner balls and its cage just fell out (not sure if it supposed to do that so I cannot really check it if they are good or bad. The outer part of the bearing turns OK but every now and then catches but not sure if it is an issue or it has just picked up a spec of dirt during the disassembly process.

So I have ordered all new bearings from Haflinger Technik - I didn't try locally as I don't believe the pinion double bearing is a generic bearing and is specific to the Haflinger. Not sure why the designers did not use two separate ball bearings rather than the double bearing arrangement.

Jim - you mentioned gaskets etc in your previous post - the previous assembler of this diff has not used any gaskets at all - used old style gasket cement (not silicon gasket maker) which did cause some issues getting the 4wd activation housing section off - a bit of low temp heat from a propane torch was needed to assist.

Garry
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Goatwerks
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by Goatwerks »

You found your noise(double row bearing), they are not supposed to fall apart :shock:
tube gasket part# 7001310721
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

Goatwerks wrote:You found your noise(double row bearing), they are not supposed to fall apart :shock:
tube gasket part# 7001310721
I hope so or all the work I have been doing was a waste of time.

Thanks for all your input - has been a great help.

I appreciate it.

Garry
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

Ok - ordered the needle and double bearing on the pinion and the two carrier bearings - ouch ouch ouch big $$$$$$$ ouch.

So they should arrive on Monday so re-assembly will start.

One problem though - when dissembling items I normally take pics and make drawings and mark parts so that I know how they go back in but every now and then I get caught out.

In the 4wd engagement extension of the front diff there is the collar (spud gear) that locks the splines on the driveshaft coming from the rear to the splines on the input side of the pinion - it is activated by the 4wd lever. With the pinion in place and leaving the 4wd activation mechanism in place the input end of the pinion stops the collar form falling out - of course when I tapped the pinion out of the diff housing the 4wd activation collar fell out and it was only then I realised it has a particular way of going back in - it is now symmetrical in plan view and I had not marke the diff side and the rear side.

This is a plan view of the collar. As you can see one side has more material than the other side and it is not clear from the wear patterns which way it goes.
2014-10-31_17-05-31_851.jpg
So does the raised section on the right go towards the diff (front) or towards the driveshaft from the rear (the rear).

Thanks

Garry
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Goatwerks
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by Goatwerks »

Raised section faces drive shaft. You will notice short side has the spline tips that are tapered to ease engagement.
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

Thanks Jim - Just what I needed to know.

The bearings have now arrived so I can start the reassembly process.

Two questions though:
1. The old double bearing was an open bearing so lubricated by the diff oil. The new double bearing that I have received is a sealed bearing so will not be lubricated by the diff oil - I assume it has grease inside. Is this normal for a diff bearing??

2. The speedo drive on the pinion shaft is not actually held in place by anything and can turn on the shaft - I assume it is just the friction caused by tightening up the pinion shaft nut to the required torque that stops the drive from just spinning on the pinion shaft. Have I missed something here - I was expecting it to be locked some way.

Cheers

Garry
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Goatwerks
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by Goatwerks »

I remove the seals from the bearing when I get them that way.
Yes, the pinion nut secures the speedo drive gear.
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

Thanks Jim - converted the bearing to oil and assembly started.

Cheers

Garry
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

Diff now reassembled - new pinion bearings - the cost of the needle bearing is a shock to the wallet. I also had new crown wheel bearings but decided not to use them as the old ones were fine. As the steering relay was worn I replaced the bearings and it is now nice and tight.

All new O-rings in the swing arms so hopefully no more oil leaks and the fulcrum pins have no slack.

The assembled diff and swing arm assembly went in Ok this afternoon so subject to it not raining the hubs will go back on with new a new king pin kit on the passenger side (drivers was done 2000km ago).

After that - new oil all round, bleed the brakes and adjust the diff locks - and hopefully back on the road with no bearing rumbles from the front drivetrain.

If all this works out that will only leave the noisy gearbox bearing to do sometime in the future.

Garry
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heinkeljb
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by heinkeljb »

You have been busy, my friend!

I hope you have cured the front end rumble. Not easy to decide where the noises are coming from on these things.

I ought to do the gearbox on Lurch as that seems to be where the whine is coming from. If you free wheel down a slope it is not so noisy.

Wish they had made it with a gearbox "Cassette" which you could just pull out the side or something when you need to work on the gears - that would save a lot of work taking the engine out, lifting the back of the platform, disconnecting all the things before you can even get the rear Diff/gearbox out of the vehicle!

Is it possible to leave the gearbox attached to the the prop shaft tube and just remove the diff part from it with all the other stuff still in place? I realise this would only allow you to replace the input shaft bearing, but that appears to be the most usual one to fail.

John
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

heinkeljb wrote:Is it possible to leave the gearbox attached to the the prop shaft tube and just remove the diff part from it with all the other stuff still in place? I realise this would only allow you to replace the input shaft bearing, but that appears to be the most usual one to fail.

John
I am not sure - I don't believe so.

I would think it is like the front end, so take the engine off, drop the springs and shocks and unbolt the gearbox/diff and swing arms as one unit. The diff does not have to come apart to work on the gearbox I believe.

I have to agree - the amount of other stuff that has to come off to work on anything in the drivetrain is a major worry.

Cheers

Garry
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

The diff is now completely back in and everything connected and just have to bleed the brakes.

On pulling the diff down I found the pinion double bearing was damaged (it fell apart) but still felt good and one of the crown wheel bearings felt sus and I also changed the pinion needle bearing so just on this basis it was worth pulling it apart.

The car is still on the jack stands so I started it up and ran it in 4wd and there does not appear to be any noise coming from the diff but there is still a loud noise in the drive train. Maybe not noticeable when on the road (still to be tested) but is obvious on the stands.

Putting my ear up to various bits with the car running in gear, the noise definitely sounds from the middle to the rear of the chassis tube, so I initially thought the center bearing in the tube may have gone. I put two litres of gear oil in the tube and it made no difference.

I then left 4wd on so I could tell if the centre drive shaft was turning and put the gearbox into neutral and with the centre drive shaft not turning and the clutch released the noise was still there so not the tube bearings. Push the clutch in and all noise stops so I am back to the dodgy bearing in the gearbox.

Another project for another day. I am not confident enough to try gearbox work - I have worked on plenty of gearboxes before but the need for jigs etc and seeing how the designers seem to have wanted to make things more complicated than they need has put me off doing gearbox work myself. Unfortunately I don't know anyone who is familiar with these vehicles to do the gearbox work for me.

On the front diff issue, I need to take it for a drive to see if the initial noise that I thought was from the front diff is still there - it shouldn't be.

Garry
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by Goatwerks »

Old trick from air cooled VW days, if no jig is available, use a hacksaw to mark the fork positions on the rods, replace bad bearings/syncro rings and it goes back together just fine.
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

Thanks Jim - when I get the inclination to pull the gearbox I will start a new thread and seek specific information then. Also having pulled the front diff out I am confident in also pulling the chassis tube when I do the gearbox and also replace its bearings. What will annoy me the most is having to pull the engine and all the other ancillaries like the rear suspension etc as I find that is what takes the time.

During 2014 I was supposed to be working on rejuvenating my V12 E-Type Jag but my time and funds have been taken up with the Haffie. A side project was to build my Rover 4.6 engine to go into my Landrover 101 to replace the 3.5 that is in it at the moment. While waiting for the Haffie diff bearings I was able to assemble most of the 4.6 V8 wirh just the heads to go back on.

So the Haffie gearbox will have to wait unless something major happens.

Cheers

Garry
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

Ok - all back in and car on its wheels. Brakes caused me some grief cause I adjusted them up before putting the wheels on but some of the drums moved out a bit and the bottom of the shoes got stuck on the adjusters and stopped the drum going on correctly and not noticed until the wheels went on and everything was locked - more the adjusters off and all OK. So the trick here is completely assemble the brakes with the adjusters right off.

I have been running the engine most days and ran it a number of times today when on the jack stands to test the rear diff lock. Ran fine.

This evening lowered the car to the ground in anticipation of getting to move under its own power for the first time in 5 weeks and of course the engine would not start even though it has run every day and was running only an hour before hand. :(

I will work it all out tomorrow.

Garry
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by heinkeljb »

HA HA!!!

It rather likes all the attention you are giving it and doesn't like the idea of having to work for a living! Did you lower one end first and then the other? Which way round?
I parked Lurch with the front end up a slope and starting was a pain, got it back level and once started ran correctly. These engine do seem to be a bit picky about dirt in the fuel system. I think I am going to put two filters in, one after the other.
Having said that, I am pretty sure my tank is suffering from the change in fuel. It was coated internally at some point, but I think the fuel is eating it!

John
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

heinkeljb wrote:HA HA!!!
:twisted:

Thought it might be flooded so left it over night and disconnected the fuel pump. Turned it over a few times and it did not fire so would have cleared any excess fuel. I took the air fliter off and squirted some starter fluid in the air intake but still no start so iy looks electrical.

I will check it out later.

Garry
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AustHaflinger
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by AustHaflinger »

So I checked to see if there was spark going to the plugs and there was :) . So it should have started on the starting fluid but it didn't so out with No 2 spark plug - a bit sootie as I would have expected due to short running periods with choke on. No spark at the plug :( . I cleaned it up and while it then sparked it was not across the electrodes but from deep down inside so out they went and I bought two new ones. They sparked OK but were a little week so I thought I would check the points and these had closed up so I reset them and with the new plugs in she fired up OK. That Pertronix is now on the shopping list.

On Spark Plugs - I am using NGK B7HS which are the equivalent of what was in it when I got it. We have no equivalent to what the book says to use. So what plugs are people using with success - we mainly have Bosch, NGK and Champion here. Also my engine runs a compression ratio somewhere around 8.5:1 - not sure if this is important.

So off I went on its first drive for a while - there is still some off noises but not as before. The new hub gears will take a while to wear in so may be noisy for a while as the castings were a little rougher than I was expecting - they had minimal machining to the contact faces.

The brakes are virtually non existant but that is to be expected as they are not adjusted up and maybe there is still a little air in the system. I will see to that over the next day. The 70kph speedo drive read over in the old setup but with the new 75kph hubs, 75kph speedo drive and my 14" wheels, the speedo reads under (I will have to watch all those speeding fines now :lol: ) which is to be expected with bigger diameter wheels over the original 12".

Here she is now parked in the sun (for our Uk friends - that yellow thing in the sky that you only get to see a few times in a year) after the first drive - am looking for oil and brake fluid leaks but none have shown up as yet.
011.jpg
I want to thank everyone who has provided advice and support over this phase of the work I have to do - I am a bit isolated here Haffy wise and I cannot just drop around to see a friend to discuss Haffies (I think there is one other here) and as such really on the information this forum has to offer.

Thanks

I appreciate it.

Garry
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kerry460
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Re: Front Diff Removal

Post by kerry460 »

G,,day

I have only used Bosch W5 AC plugs for a very long while
it is the recommended plug .
for both standard compression and high comp motors ,
do not have a problem with them .

kerry
ex Tasmanian Haflinger agent .
1984 G Wagen 300GD auto
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