5 speed gearboxes

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Julian B
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5 speed gearboxes

Post by Julian B »

A couple of quick questions about the drive chain ...

1. Does anyone know what the difference is between a "4 speed + Krawler" gearbox and a "5 speed" (i.e. 1-5) gearbox is? Is it merely the nomenclature, or is there any difference in the gearbox ratios?

2. When did the later 5 speed (as opposed to the $ speed + K) gearbox come into production?

3. Does the type of gearbox effect the placarded max. road speed, or is this purely down to the hub gear ratios?

TIA,

Julian
Julian B
W Sussex, UK

| '62 Early Series I SWB | '72 Series II LWB |
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AustHaflinger
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by AustHaflinger »

I would be interested to know as well - all I know is that with the 5 speed, the gap between 4th and 5th is far too great - if in 5th and doing say 60kph and a hill comes up you have to wait until speed and revs have died to just over 40 kph before you can change down and then the engine is screaming. 4th needs to be a bit higher.

So in addition to Julians questions are there alternative gears available for the gearbox - eg higher 5th and 4th and lower 1st.

Cheers

Garry
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Julian B
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by Julian B »

An update:

For questions 1 & 2, from conversations elsewhere I now understand that there is no technical difference other than the nomenclature between the 4+K gearbox (launched as an option in 1961) and the 1-5 gearbox (launched with the Series II in 1967). This excludes some oddities, like the Kommunalhaflingers, snow ploughs and some(/all?) Swiss army Hafs.

For question 3, the max speed is indeed determined by the hubs. There are 3 commonly seen hub ratios on civilian Haflingers - I am not sure about Austrian or Swiss military versions. The hub ratios, and thus the max speeds, can be identified by a large number stamped on to the part of the hub that sticks through the road wheel rims.
  • "14" gives 58km/h (36mph)
    "16" gives 64km/h (40 mph) and
    "31" gives 75km/h (47mph)
I haven't looked at what effect of the change from Weber to Zenith carb has, but imagine that a Weber carb coupled with a 5 speed box and the fastest hubs might not make for the best performance!

All of this should be read with caution; my interest is that I have 2 rolling chassis that could go on my 1970 LWB; the current one has the 64km/h hubs but the other one - which is the original one for the body - has the 75km/h hubs, and I am minded to either swap the rolling chassis around, or if lazy just swap the hubs ...

E&OE 8-)
Julian B
W Sussex, UK

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AustHaflinger
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by AustHaflinger »

The 16 hub gears provide a 16:38 or 2.28:1 reduction which according to my documents give a top speed of 70kph. I would like to get the 75kph hub gears but they are pretty rare as spares and very expensive.

If you are at a loss what to do with your 75kph hubs I will take them off your hands - will even throw my 70kph hub gears in. ;)

Garry
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Julian B
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by Julian B »

garrycol wrote:The 16 hub gears provide a 16:38 or 2.28:1 reduction which according to my documents give a top speed of 70kph.
Hi Garry, my 1969 Parts Manual (on page 6-05 / 3) shows ...
  • Version A - 2.72 (14 : 38) for 58 km/h
    Version B - 2.38 (16 : 38) for 64 km/h
    Version C - 3.00 (13 : 39) for 52 km/h
    Version D - 2.21 (14 : 31) for 75 km/h
Where do your figures come from?
Julian B
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heinkeljb
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by heinkeljb »

My 1991 reprint of the 1970 parts manual has the same figures as Julian's manual. I wonder if there were variations depending on where / when the manual was printed?

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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pathfinder700ap
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by pathfinder700ap »

Hello,

Garry's information is correct, because if the 16:38 hub gear ratio was fitted to younger (e.g. Series 2) Haflingers, the high speed was 70 instead of 64 kph, because of the higher engine speed (4800 rpm instead of 4500 rpm).

As you can all imagine, the high speed depends on many things:

1) Max engine speed (4500 rpm or 4800 rpm)
2) Ratio of highest gear (usually 0.71, but e.g. 0.68 on Swiss Army Hafs, both S1 and S2)
3) Ratio of pinion/crown wheel (always the same)
4) Hub gear ratio (4 options, as described above)
5) Tire size

The hub gear ratios were possibly given its "names" because these high speeds were usual for the configurations at certain years of make. Of course, the five points above could be combined in completely weird ways so that totally new high speeds would be possible.

Kind regards,
Constantin
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heinkeljb
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by heinkeljb »

So, basically, your Haflinger goes as fast as it goes, unless you start changing things! :lol:

That means I need to find a diesel engine that has a good rev range, has more than enough power, i.e. more than the standard Haflinger engine and is small and light enough to be fitted in the existing engine bay without altering things too much!

Maybe I just need to find a Supercharger to put on the engine like the ones fitted to the Haflinger's in that expedition to the Andes. Wouldn't increase the speed, but it would mean not slowing down on hills quite as much as Lurch currently does! Maybe a turbocharger rather than a supercharger?

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Westernair
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by Westernair »

I have two Judson Superchargers that were used on VW bugs in the 50's and 60's. Short of the engine cover deck clearance it would take little to fit one of them on the haffy motor.
I had one of them on my Oval rag top when it was running a 36 hp motor and the difference was definatly noticabl0e. It took the motor from 36 hp to 57 hp. The other one is a 40hp model I picked up at a swap meet with intentions on installing on my 23 window bus but I could not bring by self to making the engine bay modifications to run it.

For this little motor if one could find a Shorrock super charger that would...that would be an amazing addition.
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AustHaflinger
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by AustHaflinger »

I got my numbers from the Owners Manual that I have. It is a PDF and I would attach it if I knew how :?

You can increase power or repower but the result needs to be able to sustain revs greater than 5000rpm in 5th gear for extended periods and there are few engines are able to do that. Revs have to be increased as overall gearing can only be changed within a small range.

Garry
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Tennmogger
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by Tennmogger »

Was there a standard hub ratio for the North American versions, both Pathfinder and pre-Pathfinder (as mine is)? My hubs do not have numbers stamped that I can find, and i just scraped the paint off three of them :-( LOL

Bob
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Goatwerks
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by Goatwerks »

N/A models(Pathfinder) are 44mph as placarded(70.8Kmh), but easily hit 50-53mph @4800rpm (or 80Kmh on 12" wheels).
Last edited by Goatwerks on Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pathfinder700ap
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Re: 5 speed gearboxes

Post by pathfinder700ap »

I think that the "Pathfinder" models have the 16:38 hub gears while Canadian bug-eye models usually have the faster 14:31 gear set.

Kind regards,
Constantin
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