Front drive joint lubrication

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heinkeljb
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Re: Front drive joint lubrication

Post by heinkeljb »

Yakov,

Sounds like you have removed all the plastic that is use in making an oil seal but not the metal ring that is used in making the very outside of the oil seal. If you can clean the front face of the "hole" going in to the drive shaft, you should be able to see a dark ring line between the drive shaft casting and the ring you describe. If there is a dark ring and there is a "lip" that you can feel inside the drive shaft which is the back of the oil seal, then YES, you have left part of the oil seal in there and it will need to come out before you can get a new one in there.

Heat will help. I generally use a "hot air gun" to heat the end of the drive shaft, then get the biggest screwdriver I can in behind the oil seal and lever it out.
If you have only got the metal ring left in there, the lip you are working with is going to 0.5 mm at best. It might be a slow process to get it out, but getting a screw drive blade behind the oil seal ring and working your way round slowly, should result in it moving and coming out.

You can buy a tool which is designed to take out oil seals. Like bearings, they are a "friction fit" item, so heating the surrounding reduces the friction holding them in place.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Yakov
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Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:50 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Front drive joint lubrication

Post by Yakov »

So I just received all the parts I think I need for this, and put it all back together. Everything went smoothly, but I've got some questions just to make sure I did it right. I've attached some photos as well.

The mud deflector collar that was on there had a notch struck into it to fit down a groove on the splined CV shaft, either a strange coincidental dent or purposely to keep it from spinning? However, the replacement ones I bought have no such groove. Need I strike one in?

And one of the two new mud deflector collars I got from Swiss Army Vehicles in the US has a strange ring around the inside shaft that makes me think it is defective. Like a scratch mark. I'm assuming that's a defect and I should send it back, but I want to ask here to make sure it's not a harmless phenomenon.


My last question concerns replacing the hub with CV back into the diff - I put grease on the splines, around the expensive and strange seal, the recess where the seal sits, pushed it in. (Was I right to use grease?) There was a springy resistance that I've read about on the forum, but I managed to push it in and put the king\swivel pins in just fine. I pushed the diff lock in and it does turn the opposite side wheel, but how can I tell if one of those "stones" hadn't fallen out inside? I want to assume that I'd be able to feel it in the rotation that it was bumping around in the boot, but.... :? I'd also like to know if the springy resistance is supposed to be there.
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User avatar
heinkeljb
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK

Re: Front drive joint lubrication

Post by heinkeljb »

Hi Yakov,

A smear of grease on all the parts that move is a good idea when you put things back together, so it is what i would have done.

The "notch" you describe and show in the lower picture is indeed to stop the collar from spinning. I personally, don't think it need to be there and seeing as it sounds like you have put it all back together in any case, I would leave it as it is. I doubt there are any real forces involved that would cause the collar to become stationary and spin on the shaft outside of getting something "jammed" in between the shield bit and the driveshaft housing.

Did you remember to put the "o" ring on the shaft when you slid the new collars in place? I think your "grove" on your replacement collars might have something to do with that, but even it doesn't, I can't see that it does any harm. The "o" ring is there to stop oil that goes down the splines from coming out just like the strange oil seal.

The "springyness" you mention is supposed to be there as far as I can tell, having just had the front hub off Lurch to try and cure an oil leak, I also had that feeling when I put it back together. I am sure that when Gary had an issue with putting his hubs back in place last year that he couldn't get the hub back in far enough to put the swivel pins in place. Not sure if you can push the drive shaft into the diff so far that the blocks can fall out inside the the diff. I assume that if that was possible, you would know about it because you wouldn't be able to turn the hub with out it locking up or making a noise of metal grating on teeth.

What did your old collars look like? The section the oil seal runs on? Both Gary's and mine had nice ridges cut into them!

Have you replaced the any of the seals in the hubs themselves? There are four to replace if you do. One is the "o" ring that is inside the collar on the wheel hub. You heat the ring the oil seal runs on and it "pops" open as the rubber "o" ring inside expands.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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Yakov
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Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:50 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Front drive joint lubrication

Post by Yakov »

Hi John,

I did replace the o-ring under the shaft on the collar. I had a thin shallow groove on the collar where the seal ran, not as bad as the ones you guys had, I think, but I got a speedi-sleeve for it anyway. In the end, I opted to use the new replacement collar I got, as the price I paid for the speedi-sleeve wasn't much less than a new collar.

I bought all the seals I need for the hub, except for the seal for the plate under which the wheel bearing adjustment nut is. Swiss Army Vehicles didn't have it. [It's easier for me to order from them, as they use the national postal service and I end up only paying the taxes, whereas HaflingerTechnik, though the service is great and they are a pleasure to deal with, use a private mail courier and it ends up costing whatever they charge for delivery plus what the courier charges me afterwards. In my one-time experience, anyway.]

However, buying all the seals I need and actually having the resolve to use them are two different things. I can't shake the futile hope that they won't leak when I put it all back together. Do you mean the radial shaft\double-lip seal where the CV goes in (#18 on the parts diagram)? I didn't take the wheel bearing nut off, so I figured I wouldn't replace anything under it, seals #31 and 66. I bought those seals, just in case though.

When I fill it with oil and roll it today, everything should reveal itself, and maybe I'll learn my lesson about replacing every seal, every time. :(


The one thing that did go wrong, is that the threads on the pin that holds the upper king\swivel pin had gotten stripped and now won't tighten. I'll have to knock one out of the parts vehicle.

And one more question - how much do I tighten the bolt on the bottom king\swivel pin? As tight as it gets, or..?
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heinkeljb
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:49 pm
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Re: Front drive joint lubrication

Post by heinkeljb »

Last question answered first: 2 mkp what I hear you cry does that mean. Actually, you could search the web but I have done that for you:- 2 Kilopond metres = 19.613299999 Newton metres = 14.466027702 foot pounds. So basically I did mine up as tight as I could use the 24mm ring spanner and then "tweaked" it to get the split pin hole available.

The cotter pin (number 47) is an wedge device which requires you to get the cut out on the swivel pin "just right" with only just enough room for the threaded section to go though to the other side, then you knock it into place with a rubber mallet / hammer and then put the washer and nut on - again, it's as much about the "feel" of how tight things are as it is about getting the torque correct. Should be tight but not so tight it strips threads.

I meant the one you have to heat to get at:- #66 and you have to heat collar:- #32.

I am pretty sure things won't leak if all you are doing is rolling the chassis around the workshop - The leaks will show when you drive it and get road speeds involved!

Hope everything else went smoothly.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

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