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 Post subject: Those limit straps....
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:36 am 
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OK, pulled mine off and ordered a hundred feet of 3/32" stainless cable.

Does anyone here have an NOS strap that's unmounted and can tell me what the length is? I'm not quite convinced that my original shredded straps are at total length, but then again I don't think I can see any more than maybe a cm of stretch for these. Might be a moot point, but would be nice to have verification.

I'm going to take a chunk of aluminum, drill a couple of holes and thread them, and make a jig to weave up the new straps.

Kinda surprised when I looked at the old ones. I was really expecting to see swaged, or soldered ends....but they just tucked them in and called it good. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:20 am 
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Czechsix wrote:
I'm going to take a chunk of aluminum, drill a couple of holes and thread them, and make a jig to weave up the new straps.


While the OEM style are not all that cheap, when you take into account the effort in doing what you intend, why not just buy them or make some out of nylon webbing.

Seems like a lot of effort to save a few $$$.

Garry

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:33 am 
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It's the originality thing!

I think that, if the Haflinger were made today, SDP would use nylon. I think that when the system was originally designed, there just weren't that many choices for this sort of thing. Interestingly enough (at least to me), it also looks like there is a fabric core to the original cables. At least I've got some textile material coming out of them.

Anyway, I haven't even priced the OEM straps, but a hundred feet of cable is under forty bucks. Making the jig goes fast, and I can't see the weaving taking more than an hour or so. What the heck, I'll give it a shot!

If it doesn't work out, I can always make a nylon limit strap.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:00 am 
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Location: Launceston Tasmania AUS,
a brand new strap measures 327 , 328 mm eye to eye .

kerry

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:21 am 
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Perfect, thanks Kerry!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:32 am 
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Czechsix wrote:
Anyway, I haven't even priced the OEM straps, but a hundred feet of cable is under forty bucks. Making the jig goes fast, and I can't see the weaving taking more than an hour or so. What the heck, I'll give it a shot!



Understand - if they work out well you could probably sell a few on here.

Good luck with them.

Garry

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:43 am 
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Kerry - sorry to bother you again, but was that length measurement center to center, or inner edge to inner edge?

My old strap measures out at around 370mm, which is a surprising difference, considering that it's steel cable. (at least...I'd think that there would have been less stretch, but I'm probably wrong).

Never hurts to verify before drilling a hole, right? :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:50 am 
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Looks like it turned out ok, but the truth will be seen on the trail.

Image

We'll just have to see if anything happens, but it's definitely better than it was. I just hope it lasts.

So - 17 feet of 3/32" stainless cable, and about an hour of time.

Man, that looks ugly under there when you get a good light and sharp eye on it, LOL. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:28 am 
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Really? It looks really good in your photo!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:39 am 
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Thanks, but the real test is to come....

If anyone wants I did take some pics during the process, I'd be happy to post up a DIY guide. Not hard to do at all....just a PITA lol. Well, I did break a pair of needle nose pliers...so I guess there was some carnage involved.

Now I've got to pull one of the rear straps off and do that one.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:30 am 
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Photo's and a write up would be appreciated as they are actually a consumable part judging by the number I know that have been changed. Might be a long term consumable, but they do break nevertheless!

John

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:41 am 
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the measurement was taken , edge to edge of the hole .
this is centre to centre .

the strap is new , never used .
kerry

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:32 pm 
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Location: Inverness, Scotland
Czechsix wrote:
Looks like it turned out ok, but the truth will be seen on the trail.



Hey CZ - that strap looks damn fine; I've been following this topic with interest as my Haf has chains in place of the straps. They seem to work well and despite being aware of others concerns about shock-loading on full extension I'm not overly concerned.

Anyhow... something that you can try before getting out on the trail..

With the strap in place jack up the side of the vehicle and see how far down the wheel extends, using a datum point on the vehicle (like the chassis rail). Drop the vehicle down on to the ground, disconnect one end of the strap, jack the vehicle back up and see how far down the wheel extends this time (without the strap in place it will be the suspension damper reaching the limit of its travel that will limit the wheel drop).

If there's a big difference between the two measurements then the strap is a bit short and will be limiting wheel arc movement on the trail - not desirable.

When I did this I managed to gain an extra 1" wheel movement, without the springs being 'too loose' in their mountings or reaching the limit of the suspension damper travel. It all helps.

Cheers,

John


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:09 pm 
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Howdy John,

Thanks....looks can be deceiving, lol. Have to see how they perform.

Anyway, yeah, for curiosity I'll check full droop while strapped, and unstrapped. The thing that concerns me is not so much the damper travel, since they can be replaced, or the springs....but having the limit straps break under sudden load, and then having the swingarm do something nasty like crack the aluminum castings....

It looks to me that the Tatra based designs are somewhat limited in droop, at least as far as Haf and Pinz goes. Many is the time I've seen them lift a wheel on the trail, where something like a straight axled Unimog can drop a wheel into a hole. Not a big deal, the design is still a good one. Plus any of these designs where build to work while carrying fully rated loads, really getting that suspension going. If you get a good load on them, lots of the issues people seem to have with suspension compliance suddenly become non-issues. It would be a fun project to take video of a rough trail and see how the loaded versus unloaded trucks behave. Maybe I'll tack that onto my list - I've got a nice little area that's plenty rough, sort of a mini-demonstration field, and I've also got a GoPro camera, so I'm armed and dangerous.:D

When you gained that extra inch of movement, how close are you to having the swingarm contact the castings?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:01 pm 
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Czechsix wrote:
If you get a good load on them, lots of the issues people seem to have with suspension compliance suddenly become non-issues.


Since I've had my Haffy I've been constantly thinking of means to reduce the weight, the rationale being that it would improve performance off (and on) road.
Nothing gets lugged around unless it needs to be there; then one day I filled it up with a load of cut logs and the difference in ride quality was a revelation! It smoothed right out and there was none of the 'jitteryness' in the ride that was there when unloaded, like the suspension was a bit firm.
I'm now thinking that I should be looking for ways to increase the weight and where to put it. :lol: Ride or performance? Might have to compromise on one of them!


Czechsix wrote:
When you gained that extra inch of movement, how close are you to having the swingarm contact the castings?


That 1" droop at the wheel end would be an incremental movement at the castings end - I have the first club trial of the season this weekend so the quad tyres will be going on - I'll check it then.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:53 pm 
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Ok,here goes!

A wacky idea for increasing weight to improve handling. If you don't use your rear seats, remove them. Line the rear foot wells with a release agent and or plastic, then fill them with concrete and a small section of rebar, add a knoted rope handle before it dries. You will the then have a couple of perfect fitting concrete plugs to use as and when you need to.

I haven't done this myself but a friend (many years ago) did the same in the front of his Hillman Imp (do you fellow Brits remember the imp) when he did it i thought he was crazy but the difference to the handling was phenomenal.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:46 pm 
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Bigdougal wrote:
Ok,here goes!

A wacky idea for increasing weight to improve handling. If you don't use your rear seats, remove them. Line the rear foot wells with a release agent and or plastic, then fill them with concrete and a small section of rebar, add a knoted rope handle before it dries. You will the then have a couple of perfect fitting concrete plugs to use as and when you need to.

I haven't done this myself but a friend (many years ago) did the same in the front of his Hillman Imp (do you fellow Brits remember the imp) when he did it i thought he was crazy but the difference to the handling was phenomenal.


That's a good idea Doug and worth a try - unfortunately I don't have the standard rear footwells any more; I'll go with my preferred option 2 - eating lots more pies! :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:23 pm 
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Simple way, buy some collapsible water carriers and fill them up - when you need the carrying capability, all you need to do is pour the water out.

John

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:18 pm 
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Pulled the broken rear strap off to start that repair....and it's different from the front straps.

Different style of end (both wider for the strap section, but still the same number of strands, and a larger hole for the bolt, that's been bushed down to the correct 12mm size). It looks like it's a bit longer too. All the parts books that I have list only one style of strap, from early to late, so I'm wondering if this is either a Pinzgauer strap (not having a pinz I can't check this), or if this is a rewoven strap using pinzgauer shackle ends? The shackle ends were coated with a fairly thick, hard plastic that's worn off in the important places.

Both rear straps are this style on my Hafi, both front straps are the "correct" style.

Since there's more room for the cable, I'm thinking I might go ahead and do 9 strands instead of 7. Plenty of room, less stress on the strap, might make it last longer.

How long is a Pinzgauer strap? How wide are the shackle ends?

one of the strap ends....
Image


Pinzgauer......
Image

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:32 pm 
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I bought new straps for my Haffie a few years back and they were all the same length and fitted interchangeably between the front and rear.

Garry

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Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)


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