Feeling Grumpy Today - Hub bearing issues

[Techmogogy]

Haflinger’s are the gift that keep giving

[AustHaflinger]

Yes they certainly do keep on giving - John - I hope you get home all OK and your leak is an easy fix.

I just checked mine after a 10km drive yesterday and it is not leaking now - all so confusing.

Garry

[Julian B]

Last trip out with all the othe 24 Haflingers at the Dutch Treffen this weekend ...

I'm sure it was great fun (as always!), but what happened to the "maximum of 20 Haflingers" as per the invitation?

[AustHaflinger]

Well it has happened again - the Haflinger has not been used for a couple of weeks and has been parked in the garage - no issues with it just sitting there doing fat nothing.

Then this morning I go into the garage and that pool of hub oil is back under the drivers side rear wheel - exactly the same as before.

I wonder whether the weather has something to do with it. Winter has started to set in with a little snow on the mountains and -5 degree C mornings. I am thinking on the lines that at normal temps the axle and oil seal are just making contact but enough to seal. However on the really cold mornings the axle is shrinking just enough to allow a dribble of oil (though it should be thicker in the cold) to get past the seal.

Anyway the issue has come back, so now I will have to fix it - I will get a new oil seal but get a double lip one that is slightly larger and see how that goes. If that does not work I will try a speedie sleeve in the axle to make it slightly thicker so like the bigger seal, the seal is a little bit tighter on the shaft.

I can understand this issue occurring while car is in use and then parked - but this is happening days or weeks after use.

Another job on the list of things to do.

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Gary,

I agree you will have to dismantle the hub to be able to look at the seal and the sealing surface. Maybe there is a ridge on the sealing surface and seal is just moving that little bit. Check the wheel bearing play.
Does seem strange that it happens after a period of inactivity.

Are you sure it is hub oil and not brake fluid? Either is bad, but brake fluid would be worse!

John

[AustHaflinger]

Are you sure it is hub oil and not brake fluid? Either is bad, but brake fluid would be worse!

Yes that was my thought initially as well but it is hub oil - I really dont feel like pulling the hub apart, again and again and again.

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Take the brake drum off and see if there is oil on the little dript arrow. Hopefully very little on the brake shoes, but it is possible that there is some if you have been driving with the oil leak for a while.

I think you can probably get away with just undoing the rear bearing cover and undoing the nut. Pull the hub flange out and check the oil seal and sealing surface.
Only need to split the hub if you think the other bearings are at fault.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks for that advice John - good stuff. Yes if I can get away with not have to completely dismantle the entire hub than that will be a bonus.

Cheers

garry

[heinkeljb]

Take off the rear bearing loading plate and keep track of all the shims (washers).
Use a long piece of rebar or other suitable implement to lock the studs on the hub flange whilst you undo the nut on the other end of the shaft.
Pull the flange and shaft out of the hub (bearing / seal).
Check the two surfaces of the seal, Hopefully you will find a little ridge on the shaft which would indicate where the seal has worn a grove and therefore might not be providing as good a seal as you would like.

For the cost of two bits of rubber and a steel collar, I would just replace them whilst I had it apart!

To do so:-

Heat the collar on the shaft (it's the bit right up against the flange) with a blow torch, it should start smoking and go "pop" as the rubber "0" ring inside it expands.
Take the ring off, put new "O" on, put new collar on, tap it on securely.
New oil seal in the hub.
Put it all back together again.

You probably don't even have to drain the oil from the hub although it might be a good idea as you can then put new oil in when you have put it back together again....

John

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks for that great information - Cheers

[AustHaflinger]

This afternoon I jacked the wheel and took the brake drum off - completely contaminated with hub oil. I also took off the the shim plate at the rear and drained the oil out off the hub - only had about a 1/3 of the required level of oil.

So it does look like a blown oil seal on the axle - hence the oil leak into the inside of the brake drum.

So later this week I will remove the nut on the axle from the back and take the axle out. The hard job will be getting it all back in as the shaft spacer and big cog in the hub all need to be aligned to get the axle shaft back in - if I remember correctly a real pain. I have did it before but cannot remember what I did to get everything lined up. I guess it will come back to me.

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Piece of rubber hose pipe the correct diameter as the threaded bit of shaft will fit inside the hose pipe as you slide everything back into place.

John

[Rabbit 16v]

Ok, did this get successfully resolved? These seals and leaks have been plaguing me too. Park it, leaves a puddle. Run it, no puddle. Run it, puddle. Take everything off and run it on the lift and not a single drop. put it all back together and everything is fine. Months later it leaks again.

Gah!!

[heinkeljb]

I take it you have fitted new "o" ring under a new steel collar for the inner lip to run on. Then a new oil seal as well.

One thing you could try is to use 75/80W gear oil instead of engine oil in the hubs. Thicker oil should not find it so easy to get passed the oil seal so should not leak unless the oil seal and it's mating surface are very worn.

I suppose it is a possibility that you have a bent shaft, but that should make itself known as horrible bearing noise as it wears out the bearing. Another long shot, if either the shaft or the collar are oval, that could make it leak if the shaft parks in a particular place, but not leak at other times. I don't know how oval either would need to be for that to happen, but you could check for run out on the flange shaft just in order to eliminate that as the reason.

John

[Rabbit 16v]

I really havent gotten too far into it. Didnt want to start throwing parts at it. I do have replacement seals. No oring though.

I am using 75/90 gear oil in the hubs. Last time I looked, there was no groove on the sealing surface where the seal rides and teh seal was relatively pliable.

I dont think anything is bent. Ive had it up to 50mph and the only thing that might be related is what feels like tires out of balance and there are no wheel weights, so I attributed it to that.

[AustHaflinger]

Ok, did this get successfully resolved?

Sorry - no further action as yet - more important things happening at the moment - some family health issues and just right now my dish washer is upside down on the kitchen floor - trying to workout why it is not pumping out the water faster than it goes in and causing the flood alarm to go off all the time.

It all comes down to priorities

Garry

[Rabbit 16v]

Ahh, I totally understand. So many things in life that change priorities.

clean dishes

leaky haffie

so did you fix the haffie

[AustHaflinger]

As I said there are other priorities in life like worrying about a family member getting his foot cut off so nothing on the Haffie since late last month.

[Rabbit 16v]

Totall understood! Haffies are definitely less important than that!

[AustHaflinger]

After having the Haflinger jacked up for nearly 4 months now I was able to get back to it and take the drivers rear hub axle out.

To do this you first drain the hub simply undo the four nuts that hold the square heavy metal backing plate at the back of the hub making sure you do not loose any of the bearing adjust shims or damage the big O ring in the plate. This exposes the big nut that holds the hub axle in the housing. It has a split pin that needs to be removed.

You then stop the hub from turning and undo the the big castled nut and remove it - nothing else needs to be undone. With a soft metal drift and a heavyish hammer you just tap the exposed exposed axle shaft that the big nut came off until the hub complete hub pops out the other side of the hub. From here you can easily remove the main axle bearing oil seal.

This is my hub axle after removal.

From the bottom the threaded bit is where the castle nut is on the inside of the hub. The next wear section is where the inner wheel bearing sits, the splines are where the portal hub cog is (the big one), the next wear face is where the outer wheel bearing goes and the next stepped wear face near the hub flange where the wheel bolts up to is where the outer wheel bearing oil seal runs.

On pulling all my bits apart I think I have found why mine was leaking. You can see that both my bearing wear faces are a bit scrapped indicating to me that sometime in the life of my vehicle a bearing has grabbed and the inner race has spun on the shaft. When I put the hub together last time I put some Locktite on the shaft to lock the shaft to the inner race of the bearings (my current bearings are now all fine) and maybe I used a bit too much because in assembly some locktite got onto the face where the oil seal runs - not enough to damage the oil seal but enough to stop the seal sealing - if the vehicle was parked with the bit of loctite at the bottom oil ran out - if the wheel was stopped 180 degrees different with the bit of locktite at the top it did not run out.

So all cleaned up and I will get a new oil seal tomorrow - and while the face it runs on is sort of OK there is a little corrosion and pitting out side of the wear area so I think I will also put on a speedie sleeve as a precaution.

Now the issue will be getting it back together - in addition to the bearing I mentioned there are a number of spacers in between components and all these as well as the hub cog have to be all aligned to get the axle back - is a bit like herding cats but is doable with patience and not getting frustrated.

I hope this helps someone in the future to replace their hub axle oil seal - not technically difficult just frustrating to get it all back in.

Garry