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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:21 pm 
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Ever since I have owned Lurch, the gearbox has "whined". As one might imagine, it has slowly been getting worse - "slowly" being the operative word, as I have been changing the oil more frequently than the specified service intervals.

I bought some spares a couple of years later and as luck would have it, there was a gearbox / Diff unit amongst them. So earlier on this year I gave the spare gearbox to my friend Alf who agreed to rebuild it for me. He has a suitable workshop with the relevant tools and a couple of special tools that make re-building a gearbox easier! Certainly easier than trying to do it in the open air on a workbench and having to hammer bearings in and out!
Anyway, he sent me a list of new parts that would be required for the gearbox and these were duly ordered from Haflinger Technic. Biggest expense was a replacement reverse gear cog - the one in the 'box was missing a tooth! Alf proceeded to rebuild the gearbox which turned out to be an "early" 4 speed + Krawler gearbox. Slightly different from Lurch's 5 speed box, but then beggars can't be choosers!

With the gearbox being ready, We made a plan for me to drive Lurch up to his place and then spend the weekend swapping them over. A long journey through London because I don't fancy argueing with the traffic trying to go through the Dartford tunnel, but somehow I am prepared to argue with the traffic going through the Blackwall tunnel(?) Weird! I actually drove Lurch to work and then set off for Alf's straight after work as there was no point driving home and then driving virtually passed work's front door an hour later.
Anyway, fight my way through London rush hour traffic and arrive at Alf's late Friday evening. The rest of the evening spent nattering and planning the following days tasks.

Having woken early and had breakfast, we set about disconnecting everything connecting the engine and gearbox from the platform and undoing the 4 bolts that hold the platform to the towers.

Engine out, and jack the platform up high enough to remove the gearbox and tower as one piece. There were various nuts and bolts that fought to stay connected, but all eventually succumbed to the administrations of either of us or both depending on what was required.

With the gearbox out, we had to strip the two drive axles and ancillary items to make up a working gearbox to put back in Lurch. First unforeseen problem was when the rear diff lock would not work. Dismantled whilst it was still on the bench, but there appeared to be nothing wrong, maybe it was just sticking due to lack of oil? Who knows? With it working we finished putting things back on the Diff. Call it a day, more work tomorrow!

Manhandle the gearbox and drive shafts back in under Lurch and start putting things back together.

We had problems adjusting the gear linkage as the three holes wouldn't line up, dismantle the cap on the gearbox tower, re-adjust the linkage and finish connecting things up. Engine back in and connected up. Fire it up and go, err attempt to go for a drive - sort of some forward gears, no reverse! What's gone wrong? It appears that the forks in the gearbox are jamming as we move the gear lever. Alf was sure he hadn't put it together wrongly, but it did look like the fingers on the selector forks were in the wrong place.
By this time it was getting late on the Sunday evening and I needed to be back at work the next morning, so I took the train home and left poor Lurch in Alf's workshop. During the week, Alf spent some time working out what was wrong. he came to the conclusion that there was nothing wrong with the gearbox and that it was the bottom of the gear lever linkage that had too much play in it!

So I had been expecting to catch a train back to Alf's and to spend the next weekend busy working on Lurch to sort out whatever was wrong. As it turned out, Alf had fixed it during the week and all I was going to have to do was go and collect Lurch!

The clutch and gearbox feel very different compared to Lurch's original gearbox, but at least this one doesn't whine. The clutch sticks but that is probably due to the fact the main drive pinion shaft on this new gearbox was very rusty and has just been cleaned up as much as possible. Maybe some use will smooth things out a bit.

The drive back home showed up a couple of things, like I need to replace the brake shoes and the handbrake cable. There is also an issue with an oil leak from a front diff gaiter and possibly from the fulcrum pins.

John

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:32 am 
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Wow that is a big job - yes I think you will have little teething problems as time goes on and the best way to sort them is to drive the vehicle and get some miles on it.

So the next job is to rebuild your old gearbox?

Garry

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:02 am 
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I am most impressed by Alf's (& your's!) skills and confidence - not something I would be able to do!!!

Well done 8-)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:45 am 
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The rebuild of the original gearbox has already been planned for, it has the correct chassis number on it (even if the engine has something different). The replacement gearbox currently fitted was a total unknown as far as what was wrong with it if anything. New bearings were a given, but it wasn't until Alf opened it up and started looking for possible problems was it noticed that the reverse gear cog had a tooth missing. There were some other bits missing round the gearbox linkage tower, Luckily between us we had the parts required. Any one got a spare Gear linkage tower CAP they would like to sell me?

At least Lurch's original gearbox only whines which hopefully means that all it requires is new bearings, but I doubt I will get away with just that! I also need to get a set of replacement axles built so it is a more straight forward swap next time rather than having to cannibalise one gearbox to the other before fitting like we had to do this time round.

I have a few pictures of Lurch in various states of dismantlement - oil hands mean few photos!

John

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:54 am 
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So much effort and achievement in one post! (the thought of driving a Haflinger through London rush-hour traffic - yikes).

Looking forward to your updates John.

All the best with it,

John


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Just a matter of interest - what is the difference between the 4 speed and krawler and a 5 speed gearbox - arn't really they one and the same.

With my 5 speed - I only ever use 2 - 5 gears in everyday use and 1st only gets used when offroad - so in effect a 4 speed with a krawler.

While I appreciate there may be differences internally in the gearboxes - from the drivers seat is there any differences - do you use them differently.

Thanks

garry

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:52 pm 
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I haven't looked very closely at the gear ratios between the two gearboxes, but internally the main difference is that the original 4 speed + Krawler hs a 2 part shaft with a clutch on the Krawler gear as they originally thought the torque available would do some damage, so with a clutch in there, all that would happen would be a racheting noise and no forward motion!
The 5 speed has a one piece shaft - so no clutch to go wrong!

Everyday use is as you stated Gary, only the gears are called 1 to 4 and Krawler used when off road.

I will look at the gear ratios and see if they are different. I believe the 4 speed gears are slightly better spread as following other SWB Haf's which have the 4 speed with crawler, they appear to go up hills with less gear changes!

John

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:27 pm 
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Some pictures although as already stated, It is all to easy to get your hands dirty and forget to take photos and even if you do remember, you can't be bothered to go clean your hands, take a couple of photos and then get your hand mucky again!

Engine out.
Attachment:
engine out.jpg
engine out.jpg [ 1.52 MiB | Viewed 528 times ]


Big hole under Lurch.
Attachment:
theres a big hole under Lurch.jpg
theres a big hole under Lurch.jpg [ 1.27 MiB | Viewed 528 times ]


Replacement gearbox having bits transferred from Lurch's original gearbox to make a working one to put in:
Attachment:
replacement gearbox being built.jpg
replacement gearbox being built.jpg [ 1.32 MiB | Viewed 528 times ]


John

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Biggest "thank you" must go to Alf's wife Lynda - Cups of coffee and biscuits every couple of hours, delicious meals at the appropriate times without which I am sure we would have keeled over!

John

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:31 am 
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Well, it hasn't all been plain sailing since Lurch had the replacement gearbox / diff fitted. It now appears I have had a broken half shaft (UK, offside rear) since I took it for a test drive at Alf's. I came back from the test drive and it wouldn't go up his drive way - it's gravel and we put it down to that as to why I required 4 wheel drive to get back up the drive. Then, I am remembering another incident on the way home which should not have happened. I pulled away from a traffic lights and the rear left wheel spun and squealed like an American movie car!
Oh, and another tell tale sign, when I was driving and took my foot off the accelerator, Lurch would dive t the left - I put it down to the brakes being out of adjustment, but when you applied power, it picked up the passenger side front more than it previously did, which again I put down to the brakes, but maybe it is down to the broken half shaft?

So going through my spares, I have 3 spare rear drive shafts - all for the wrong side! I have left hands side ones when I need a right hand side one!
Next couple of week ends are going to have to be spent dismantling that side in preparation of finding a suitable spare. Of course, I have shows booked, trials to go to which obviously won't happen until it's fixed. :(

John

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:20 am 
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Well if you do have a broken axle the only way you were able to drive if is if the diff lock was locked - if the diff was open all drive would have gone to the broken axle and the vehicle would go no where.

That then begs the question, what was the cause of the broken axle - if the diff was locked from assembly (or later - irrespective of the lever position) and you drove of hard surfaces like the road - that may have been enough to cause an axle to break particularly if it was already fatigued.

So when you go putting in a new axle I would be checking that the diff lock is not locked and all works as it should. I know from my own experiences the linkages can be pain to get right - just hope the diff lock has been assembled correctly in the rebuild - sorry for this pessimistic aspect.

Garry

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:07 am 
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John, that all sounds like a nightmare! If there is anything I can do to help (either at yours or mine), give me a call ...

Julian

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:34 pm 
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Gary,
Thanks for the info. As I haven't actually "pulled" the axle (R.H.S rear as viewed from the rear of the vehicle) - I can't be 100% certain it is a broken half shaft, but I am not sure what else could produce the symptoms.

So to start with not 100% sure the rear diff lock is in or out. Lever says out.

If you jack up the rear, both rear wheels in the air. Turn R.H.S wheel, you can "feel" it trying to turn something inside, but almost like cogs not properly meshed. Other side wheel does NOT turn in either direction.

Every once in a while, it will "feel" correct and other side wheel will turn in opposite direction to the way you are turning the R.H.S. one - This is how I would expect it to work.

Then it will go back to just spinning.

If you then put it in a forward gear, you can still turn the R.H.S. wheel without trouble. It does not appear that the rear difflock does anything, in as much as pulling the lever up does not move far enough to lock but I must admit I haven't spent any length of time checking the difflock as there seems other more important issue to cure.

Having just gotten off the phone with Alf, the guy who rebuilt the gearbox /diff and had a long conversation about what might have gone wrong. It appears unlikely that a half shaft has broken, rare, but not unknown. The Diff star wheels might have broken a tooth, rare, but not unknown. Whatever it is that has gone wrong, it needs to be stripped to find out as driving it could wreck the gearbox / Diff completely by bursting the castings.

The plan now is for me to remove everything unnecessary for Lurch to be mobile. Alf will pull Lurch's original gearbox / diff to pieces and see whats wrong with it and hopefully rebuild it. Then this coming weekend, he will come down with his trailer and collect Lurch. Then we will do the gearbox swap back to the original and pull this box apart t o find out what has gone wrong with it. If the original box turns out not to be any good, then we just have to strip the current gearbox to find out what has caused the current problems and hopefully cure them (that will have to be done in any case as there is no point having two gearboxes if you've just spent money getting them fixed)!!

So more later on what the actual problem is!

John

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:38 am 
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Best of luck with the repair, I hope you don't have as much trouble as I had with my gearbox rebuild, I had a good excuse for having to strip it a few time :lol: :oops: :roll: , with parts of the gearbox missing and not realizing they were missing as the part was not shown in the 1965 parts book, but shown in the 1969/70 parts book.

Dave


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:51 am 
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From what you described it sounds a bit like what I had - the diff lock lever was not up but the difflock in the diff was neither locked or not not locked meaning I got some knocking as the diff lock teeth were touching and letting go - when you jacked up and tested it was like you found - the diff was working fine in the open position so wheels turned in opposite direction - but when actually driving the diff lock was trying to engage with the dog teeth jumping over each other. Was a linkage adjustment issue for me.

If you do have a broken axle that sort of test is not going to work.

Before pulling the gearbox I would pull the relevant hub (have you got split boots - I hope you have), remove the boot on the inside and pull the axle - if it is busted some will come out with the swing arm in place. You can also check that the square nut thingies on the diff end are in correct (you should check the status of the square nuts first before trying to pull the axle) - if they were not put in right this could be the cause of your issues.

If you cannot get any of the axle out the hub end than it is not broken as the yoke diff end will not fit through the hole -(has been a while so may not remember correctly). I would then put the diff end of the axle back into the diff - with the little square nut things inn place. I would then check that with the diff lock off, turning one wheel will spin the other one in the opposite direction with no unusual feel or noise. Lock the diff and see that both wheels turn in the same direction. If that all works and your diff lock is adjusted right I would take a punt that all is OK in the diff and reassemble.

If not then you will need to start pulling things down but I would start with the swing arm on the dodgy side first so you can get a good look at the axle (but then you have the design issue of not being able to get the fulcrum pins out as they hit the housing but you might be able to get them loose enough to do the job) - I would only try pulling the gearbox/diff if nothing is obvious with the swing arms/axles and the little square nut things on the inner end that are basically the inner CV.

Good luck with it.

Garry

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:54 am 
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Having spoken with Alf last night regarding this issue, we have come up with a plan. I was not able to spend yesterday pulling things apart as I was due to go to a trails meet and as I didn't know what wrong I just went and Marshalled instead - just as well as it started raining part way through the day and that would have meant Lurch being left immobile until I could next get to working on it.

What we have come up with is:-
Alf will pull the original gearbox / Diff apart and replace bearings etc, so that will be available. Then he will drive down to my place with his trailer and we will load Lurch and drive back to his place.
If the original 'box is good, then we will do a swap to that.
If the original 'box turns out to be U/S then we will strip the current one to find out what's gone wrong - whether we manage to do that in a day and a half, who know's? If we don't then I will leave Lurch there and catch a train home to return another weekend.
As Alf pointed out, if there are little bits of "teeth", or similar bits of metal floating around in there, better not to try driving it as it could cause the gearbox / Diff casing to burst - which would make it completely useless!

The main reason for this is the fact the rear R.H.S. wheel had locked up solid when I tried to drive it on Saturday morning and it wasn't just rusted / frozen brake shoes / drum issue. Then when it did free up, it feels like gears not quite meshing which might be broken teeth, so it is not useable until stripped and checked....

More time and money! Well, I always knew this was an expensive "toy" and I have had 5 years of spending very little on it! It's catching up with a vengeance!!

John

P.s. Thanks for the offer Julian - might take you up on it when I need to do some welding of the engine bay tin work.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Ordered bearings and things from Haflinger Technik which arrived at Alf's place today. He has put most of the gearbox / diff together and will finish what he can tomorrow. Then he has kindly offered to get up at some early hour on Saturday morning and drive down to my place with his trailer so we can get Lurch back to his workshop.
It will be so nice to drive Lurch without all the "whining" coming from the rear. I suppose that will mean the front diff will start to annoy me and I will have to spend money on that!
By the time we have finished I will be able to replace a gearbox in the middle of nowhere - Next on the list is actually delving into the gearbox myself....
But that will have to wait for another day.

John

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Lurch is in the dog house!!

Alf kindy came down to my place with his trailer and collected Lurch and me and took us back to his place. Several hours later we had the replacement gearbox / diff out and discovered that it is not a broken drive shaft but a seized Differential! Centre tube was seized on the outer sleeve.
We didn't spend any time looking at it other than to identify that it was the cause of the one wheel drive!

Alf had managed to put new bearings in the original gearbox / diff, so we had something to put back in. Not really able to leave a Haflinger platform up in the air with a stack of wood and jacks holding it up! With every thing back in place many hours later we are ready for a test drive. It did not go well. I couldn't get into fifth gear unless I was down at crawling speed. Adjustment of the clutch sort of solve that issue, but now we have something that has perplexed both of us.

The gearbox grates when you change gear COMING OUT of "2" nd towards "3"rd and again when you COME out of "4"th going into "5"th! Of course all this happens at the end of the weekend, I had a migraine by this time and Alf has gone beyond the call of duty and drove me all the way home as I was really not up to getting the train home at that point. He then obviously, had to drive himself all the way back home afterwards!

Watch this space as there will be another update when we have worked out what has gone wrong this time with the original gearbox / diff. It is unlikely that it is the actual gearbox as Alf has re-built lots of them previously with out issues. Far more likely is another component that we have disturbed is now causing problems.

John

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:46 am 
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Can I suggest pushing Lurch over a cliff or setting fire to it - well not really - I often feel like doing that to my vehicles but everything always seems brighter the next day.

Well all you can do is have a little break from it to refresh you might and then think the issues through and then slowly move ahead - dealing with one issue at a time and double checking everything.

Good luck with it - patience is a virtue :-)

Garry

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:19 am 
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Lurch may well be in the dog house, but it sounds like Alf should be put on a pedestal for going beyond the call of duty - well done him for looking after you (& Lurch!).

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