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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:16 pm 
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Hi everyone, I was told to come here from the Facebook group to ask my questions. I recently purchased two haffies. Both are Swiss. One is a 62 SWB military unit, and the other is a 73 LWB civilian unit.

The 62 cannot engage 4th gear. I have taken the linkage and shifter assembly apart to the point at which I can manually operate the 3rd/4th gear selector finger and only 3rd can be engaged. I cannot pull it to the front of the vehicle to engage 4th. There is no obstruction preventing me that I can see.

The 73 has a similar problem in that I cannot engage 4th or 5th. I have not disassembled this one yet to verify. I suspect it has a similar fault.

So, on to my questions.

1. Is there a common failure? My experience with gearboxes is limited to VWaG products. That said, I have seen a common failure of a gear selector hub that cracks allowing engagement of gears impossible. Is this a similar problem with these gearboxes?

2. The 73 has taller gearing allowing for higher top speeds. It is my understanding this taller gearing is influenced entirely by the gear reduction boxes at the hubs, correct?

3. The 73 has a PTO which I would like in the 62. Obviously, the only way to do this is to swap gearboxes. I figured if I have to take two of them apart, I might as well put one back together with all the desirable options.

Thanks for reading and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

regards,

Chris


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:08 pm 
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Welcome Chris,

Face book is alright for quick answers to easy questions, when you have something that will probably require several long posts it is not so good.

To do the easy('er) bit first:-

There are different gearboxes as I have already mentioned. 4 speed, 4 speed + Krawler and 5 speed. It is likely that your '62 has a 4 speed box and your 73 has a 5 speed box. If you are going to do a "mix and match" then your best option would seem to be;

Gearbox and diff unit from the '73 (therefore keep the PTO), remove complete with the axles, hubs. (Install into the '62)
Strip the front hubs of the '62 and the '73.
Take the two gears from the '73 hubs and install them in the '62 hubs. Obviously if you intend to try and get the most money for the remains of the '73,then you will have to put the gearbox / diff from the '62 back on to the '73 along with the lower speed hub gears you took out from the '62.

Having the slower speed hubs and a gearbox from an earlier model will devalue the '73 somewhat.

As you are going to take the engine, gearbox / Diff unit out of the '73 it will give you the opportunity to open the gearbox part to have a look for the problem with selecting gears. In general the gearbox are strong so if it is not an adjustment issue either in the lever section outside the gearbox (which I believe you have looked at). Then it is possible that it is in the tower part of the selection system or else it is to do with the selector forks in the gearbox.

You will need a workshop manual and the spare parts book in order to work out how the various bits come apart and go back together as even with our help you are going to wonder exactly which bit is which and how it fits together.
If you haven't got a re-printed / original / borrowed one, you can access one online (Goatwerks.com) but it is for the early models, like your '62 so might not cover the crucial bits you require for repair of your '73's gearbox.

John

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:14 am 
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Hi John, thanks for the prompt reply.

I should have clarified. The 62 has a 4sp+ Krawler. Obviously the 73 has a 5sp. So this is what leads me to thinking there is a little ease of interchangeability here.

On the subject of converting the taller gear ratios, is 1st gear relatively ok for offroading? I used the K gear last time I took the 62 out and it worked very well. I havent driven the 73 offroad, so not sure of its capabilities.

I will definitely be selling the 73, so need to put it all back together. I bought both of these with the intention of selling one in order to offset the cost of the initial purchase.

Since I have determined the 62 for sure has an internal issue with the gear selection, I will probably start by taking that one apart to get familiar with what is needed to repair. Since the gearbox will also be coming out of the 73, at least I will be able to more easily inspect the shift mechanism. Hopefully only one gearbox needs to be taken apart and the other is just something in the shift tower.

I do have a repair manual downloaded as well as a parts catalog.

Thanks again for the speedy and knowledgeable response. In your opinion, am I making poor choices here? I really like the 62 due to the fact that I can have two people seated in the rear (the 73 only has one trap door), it has a canopy, doors, heavy duty bumpers, military configuration, and a canopy support for over the rear deck. So, I think since I like that one, I would also like the taller gears and the PTO to be added.

regards, Chris

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:04 am 
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There is a reason the '73 (with PTO) only has one rear passenger footwell, with the ancillaries on the PTO, it would foul the footwell. At least with Haflinger supplied ancillaried.

It makes no real difference that the '62 has a 4 speed plus Krawler - For what you envisage, you are going to swap the gearbox / Diff units over. What it will make a difference to is when it is in the '73, it will be almost as if it were an earlier '70, '71 versions as these had the 4 speed + Krawler.

Normal use would be to start off in "1st" when using the '62 as currently setup and to use Krawler in difficult terrain. Quite when you decide that you should be using Krawler is something you will have to learn by trial and error.
Similarly, start off in "2nd" when using the 5 speed box in the '73 for normal use and going to "1st" when the going gets tough as they say.

Most things would be interchangeable between them except those things that are specific to the LWB versions like you would need a longer canvas top as the SWB one would be to short (although it would fit, just be short in length)

Also bear in mind, the PTO will have the extra lever in the cab to operate it (lever nearest the rear of the cab) - IF you move the gearbox / Diff, then you also have to sort that.

John

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:28 am 
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Haven't read this thread closely (gearboxes fall squarely in to the "I don't understand magic" category for me), but does Constantin's gearbox page help at all?

http://tdc.haflinger-4wd.com/details_an ... mation.php

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:28 pm 
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Thanks guys.

I read up on the TDC link, thanks. Thats helpful to know the different options.

Has anyone had these symptoms before?

Makes sense why the lwb doesnt have a seat pocket there. The recipient will need to get some clever engineering to make it work once I decide what to use it for haha.

Am I correct in my understanding that the gear ratios are pretty much the same and the only real difference are the gears inside the reduction boxes at the hubs? Anything I should be considering doing at the same time other than a clutch?

Thanks again for the help!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:40 am 
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I don't have my workshop manual to hand, but if I remember correctly, there is very little difference in gear ratios except the 4 speed box which has slightly wider spread. The most noticeable thing is the gap between 4th and 5th on the later 'boxes results in screaming in 4th to get in to 5th and then the gradual decline in speed resulting in changing back down into 4th that happens on long hills. The 4 speed 'box is better in these circumstances. Not that it will affect you other than when you follow another Haf which has different gearing!
The main thing to bear in mind is that the hub gears (which ever speed set) are matched sets! Also that the gears in the rear as thicker than those in the front. So you "transplant" EXACTLY as you remove, i.e. front left to front left etc.

With engine / gearbox / diff out, deal with any oil leaks, as much easier to do at that point than with everything in place!

John

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:41 am 
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John is spot on, on all counts.

I changed the hub gears on my vehicle - improves flat cruise speed by about 5kph but does not pull as well in higher gears etc as is to be expected. If you change the hub gears you also need to change the speedo drive gears in the front diff to compensate.

John mentioned oil leaks - I have an ongoing issue with mine as the swing arm fulcrums are lubricated via small holes from the diff. Special O rings on the fulcrums are supposed to keep the oil in but doesnt - not an issue for diff oil levels but leaves oil drops on the garage flaw.

Another are the swing arm boots - Steyr in their wisdom decided that the swing arms are hollow and are filled with oil from the diffs (so when you fill the diffs it is a good idea to tip the side to side so the oil also goes into the swing arm) - it is the boots and the special oil seal on the hub end that keep the oil in. Great idea - not :( So any crack in the boots means you loose diff oil - and of course if you use OEM boots the swing arms have to come out - thankfully split boots are available but are fiddley to fit but do work.

So check your swing arm boots for cracks and leaks.

Garry

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Ok good to know on all fronts. That confirms my suspicion about the gear ratios and Im ok with that.

I suppose I should order a couple of clutch kits and some axle boots. Im not a fan of split boots, so I probably wont use those.

I should get the orings for the reduction boxes too, I suppose.

There is a decent sized oil leak from the stamped steel oil filler tube on the 73, so I will weld that up while I am in there.

Now that we have concluded what all needs to come apart, do you guys know if the engine in the 73 has more power than the 62? Obviously I would prefer to put the more powerful engine in the 62.

Thanks again for all the help. I will post pics of my progress once I get started.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:36 pm 
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The 73 will have a Zenith carb & a slightly higher "red line" (30 SAE hp @ 4,800rpm) and the 62 a smaller Weber carb (28 SAE hp @ 4,500rpm).

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:57 pm 
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Perfect, I will stick with that motor as well then. Thanks!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:40 am 
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Rabbit 16v wrote:
Im not a fan of split boots, so I probably wont use those.


Well if your happy to have to pull the swing arms off and dismantle some of the hubs just to put boots on well go for it.

Getting the drive shaft back into the diff with the little nuts all aligned is no mean feat even when you can see them let alone when there is a boot in the way. I have been using the split boots since my car was back on the road in 2013 as it is registered for road use I use it on the road 3 or 4 times a week. Doing hubs and other work the split boots have saved me a few times having having to pull the swing arms out (the rears are a real pain).

Remember the boots are fixed and do not rotate like CV boots - they just go up and down with the swing arms - I put a bit of silastic sealant on all the mating surfaces as a precaution against leaks and and use an extra small washer on each bolt as extra insurance to stop them pulling through - I might have oil leaks elsewhere but not from the swing arm boots.

Also on the subject of CV boots - your later Haf should have a fully sealed CV in a metal housing. This can be unscrewed and refilled with grease - I have small threaded holes in mine where I can screw in a grease nipple and refill without dismantling. The older haf should have "traditional" style CVs with a rubber boot - not sure of these but they will need checking. In both cases the CVs themselves are hellishly expensive so ideally you should just reboot and regrease as appropriate.

The attached doc covers some of you engine power questions and other specifications.
Attachment:
Haflinger_Specs.pdf [59.33 KiB]
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:49 am 
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Julian,

You're obviously not well (lol), you haven't pointed out that Chris has not filled in any of his profile!

Chris,

Can you go to profile and at least put in your town and country. This is an International forum and it also helps when trying to find someone who lives "local" to you, that might be able to help.

Bet your beginning to wish you hadn't thought of swapping things over between the 2 Haf's now..... There's a lot of work involved.

John

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Thanks for that, Garry!

Thanks, John. I have now updated some of my profile.

I have been in discussion with Dale from Haflingertecknik abotu this as well (order pending) and he suggested that maybe loosening the grub screws for the selector detent springs? Im not sure where these may be located and the haffie is no longer on a lift. This would be great news if I didnt have to disassemble the transmission.

John, Im not too worried about swapping everything over. These are fairly simple machines as far as some of my projects go. For example, one of the projects on the list is an Audi A4 petrol automatic that I have to convert to manual and TDI for the wife. I think once I am done, I will have a pretty sweet haffie :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:10 pm 
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Rabbit 16v wrote:
Thanks, John. I have now updated some of my profile.


Wow - Location: Seattle, Washington USA

I would not have picked that from the discussion in this thread - my pick would have been Europe - I guess the Swiss Haf thing. Just goes to show that putting in the location helps to see where people fit in. I am the one who normally says "Can you go to profile and at least put in your town and country. This is an International forum and it also helps when trying to find someone who lives "local" to you, that might be able to help."

Now we know where you are - do you know that there is a bit of a Haflinger/Steyr community in the Pacific Northwest?? There are a few on here but most inhabit http://real4x4forums.com/PinzgauerBBS/v ... m.php?f=23 as many also drive Pinzgauers and they hold Treffins and things there on an annual basis - as well a bit further south in San Bernardino there is a company called Goatwerks - http://www.goatwerks.com/haflingertechstuff.html Jim LaGuardia runs it and is a member on here 'Goatwerks' and comes on time to time and is very helpful, Even though I am in Australia he has helped me with a few things and with some hard to get parts.

While we here are Haflinger specific and are to font of all Haflinger knowledge, the Real 4x4 Forum will also put you on contact with local enthusiasts and when you have a vehicle on the road a group to have trips with.

Having said that John (heinkeljb) is the expert on gearboxes having been through a few issues with them in 2017.

Garry

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:07 am 
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Love this thread - great info for a new member.
I am in Canada and own a few SDP vehicles and can vouch for Jim L and Real4x4 for trips, treffens, etc.
This forum is best for Haflinger technical knowledge but key members here do belong to both.
Cheers,
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:40 am 
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Hi Garry, yeah Im a little far from Europe presently. Haha! Definitely makes sense to have that info filled in. I was in a hurry and didnt think about it.

I am aware there is a pretty decent sized community in my area. In fact, I blame NW Mogfest for my new ownership of both Haffies. Had i not gone last summer, its likely I would not own these little guys. I will be sure to take a look at those forums as well.

I think I might poke a bit into the screws that Dale was talking about. I looked through the spares catalog earlier today and found the exploded diagram detailing the screws he mentioned. Now to chip away at mud until I can see them, lol!

Thanks again everyone for the help!

Chris

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Ok, I have a small but uneventful update. I have removed the grub screw, spring, and ball on the detent to no avail. I still cannot manually place it in 4th. I know what is in store for me tomorrow...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:52 am 
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Well, it has begun..


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:08 am 
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Well now you are just showing off :lol:

Most of us have to do our work out on the driveway in the rain and the cold (in the case of the Brits) or in the high UV burning sun in my case. You got a nice shed there :o with lots of nice gear.

So with all that stuff I guess both Haffies will be on the road in a week.

Yes I am jealous ;)

Garry

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