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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:52 am 
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Why has it never even occurred to me to drop the engine out without removing the wheels first?

I know that Chris needed to work on the gearbox / linkages as well, but does splitting it in front of the gearbox make the removal easier?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:39 am 
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The real issue this produces is that you need the gearbox out of gear so the wheels turn, making it difficult getting the prop shaft lined up again when you try to put it back together again. Did you release the two bolts in the cab holding the platform on the front mountings?

John

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:42 pm 
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You could always get the running gear from here:- http://www.pinzgauer.com/vehiclelist.php?cat=7

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:22 am 
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Right, so I havent had a chance to get back at it today. I will get a little opportunity to poke at it tomorrow.

front platform bolts were also removed from under the seats. also disconnected the rear locker arm and the 4x4 arm. Dale has a writeup that is a little vague in description, but works.

Quite the pain in the ass/learning curve. at least I will be more prepared for when i take the white one apart.

having done a fair amount of work on watercooler Porsches, I am not looking forward to reinstallation when it comes to lining up the torque tube.

BUT!! There was a surprise! While dealing with the stripped wing nut for the drivers seat adjustment, I felt something under the seat. It felt like a wooden dowel, so I didnt really pay much attention. After working on the seat a bit to get it clear of the bolt, I went back to digging for that dowel. Turns out, it wasnt a dowel at all, but two pocket knives. As it must be, of course, one was a Swiss Victorinox! I felt a little better after that.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:25 am 
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Oh, and one mention. The person I bought these from mentioned something about a bolt at the shifter that limits top speed to 30kmh. I have definitely eliminated this be removing the linkage at the shift tower and all that. But has anyone heard of this?

I completely forgot I was told this and was reminded of it today.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:36 am 
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Maybe that was their way of telling you that you couldn't get all the gears! No such thing as far as I am aware was ever fitted to these vehicles. A governor that restricts the air / fuel mixture into the engine which "could" be set to limit your top speed quite drastically if required, but nothing on the gear linkage system.

Do you fancy doing a write up "How to" on what your doing?

John

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Well, I got to work today and took a look. Sure enough, there is a bolt restricting movement that would have made it impossible to select 4th or 5th. I removed the bolt, aaaaaaannnnnddd still no 4th or 5th. I am going to play with the adjustment today, but I dont think its going to do anything.

The green one has a bolt, but its not too long to interfere with the gear stick range of motion like the other one.

I can try doing a write up, but I am pretty terrible at them, lol.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Make sure the joint at the bottom of the gear lever is without play up and down and sideways. Sometime a new bush and nut and bolt will sort something which you thought was fine!
It really does sound like you have several issues all at the same time. It's a real shame the Haflinger's designers didn't make a cover on the side of the gearbox to allow you access to things without having to take the whole gearbox out.

I am sure you will, like us, come across things whilst working on your Haf's that will make you think - "Why on earth did they make it like that"!

John

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:00 am 
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Your very last sentence is 100% accurate. I havent spent any more time on the white one today. i focused on the green one.

It appears that someone has been in this transmission before me. Not the two stripped screws. Then, we have the culprit. Brass bushing installed on the 3/4 selector fork rod to PREVENT engaging 4th gear!! WTF? So the good news is that I dont have to wait for parts. The bad news is that this was intentionally done with specific intent to render 4th gear unusable.

I dont know what protocol would require this sort of action. They are both from Switzerland and maybe there is some special limitation or license that requires speed limiters? Or maybe the Swiss military didnt want some hot headed soldier flogging it at high speed?

Either way, I am closer now. Haha!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:55 am 
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That sort of action is clearly not normal - the only thing I can think of is that there is something wrong with 4th gear and rather than fix it they have stopped its use. Could be wrong of course but I would have a good look at the operation of 4th gear.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:20 am 
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I am thinking more along the lines of legal compliance with some top speed law. I have manually engaged 4th and it feels fine. I will definitely be looking at it a little closer tomorrow before I put it back together. It sure seems like a massive undertaking to avoid repairing it. I figure if one was there and there was a problem, it couldnt take more than ten minutes more to fix whatever was wrong.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:50 am 
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Have you done the obvious thing? Enquired from whom you bought it as to what the deal was? Why the butchery in the gearbox?
Why couldn't they have done something similar outside the gearbox to limit fear movement rather than inside? Don't suppose we will ever know, but chalk it up to yet another of things that happen in the weird and wonderful world of the Haflinger!

John

p.s. Well done for spotting it!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:50 pm 
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I used a third party to assist buying it for me. I did consult with him a little last night and all he knew was that he was told there was a bolt on one of them to restrict speed.

I found that someone was a little smarter on the white one and I just drove it in 4th and 5th gears. Yay!!

Thanks for the props. This is quite the learning curve.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:57 pm 
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Ok, going back together here but I cant seem to find torque values in the repair manual. There are three nuts. One for the mainshaft (27mm nut that screws onto a 16mm shaft). Another for the pinion shaft that the Krawler selector hub goes onto (22mm castle nut with 14mm shaft and has roll pin). Lastly a nut that goes on the lower intermediate shaft (22mm nut on 14mm shaft).

Does anyone know these values or where I might find the information to read about them? Thanks!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:38 am 
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Hi,

See post: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=642

If that does not have what you are looking for, say so and I will have a look for them.

John

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Thanks John. I did find that and torqued to what I think was correct and nothing snapped on me, so thats a bonus.

I am curious though, what does "Overload Clutch Nut Slippage – 144.6 + 14.5 ft/lb (20 + 2mkg)" mean? Why not just tq to 159.1 ft lbs? I only torqued this to 102ft lbs. My torque wrench doesnt do tenths, so I just torqued to 102 instead of 101.25 or whatever it called for.

Thanks again! I suspect that this is going to get shelved for a bit as I only have four balls and two small springs and to long springs for the Krawler gear selector hub. I think whoever put it back together before me might have omitted some bits.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:42 pm 
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Obviously they want you to torque as far as one setting and then re-adjust your torque setting equipment, the item you have just torqued will settle a bit whilst you are changing your torque wrench and then the tightening of the extra bit will be starting from a higher point so will have less of an impact on the actual movement of the nut to reach the final torque setting.

Maybe they lost those bits and couldn't get replacements so they figured out a way to make the gearbox work without them, namely preventing you getting to fourth?

Further thoughts on your quest to keep the PTO 'box:-

Other than the fact that one is a SWB and the other is a LWB, it would be easier just to swap the platforms! As that won't work, you will have to swap bits!
From what I understand, there are in fact 4 different length torque tubes!
SWB 4 speed
LWB 4 speed
SWB 4 speed + Krawler / 5 speed
LWB 4 speed + Krawler / 5 speed

Minimum you will need swap are the 4 sets of hub cogs (as matched sets)!!
Gearbox / Differential
Gear lever Knob
Plate on dashboard

OR

Complete engine / gearbox / differential / rear axles, plus hubs
Front wheel hub gears as match sets.
Gear lever knob
Plate on dashboard

John

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Ahh, that makes more sense.

The ball/spring situation is on the K gear, so its going to be unrelated to the 4th engagement. Seeing as how the other Haffie was also deliberately handicapped, I am confident this was done intentionally to conform to some speed limiting law.

Yes, I figured as much with the swapping. Ive resolved myself to swapping the 5 speed with pto and the engine into the green one and doing it all at once. Then I just have to swap the gears in the front hubs and of course muck with the linkage for the pto activation.

thanks again for the help!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:13 am 
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Rabbit 16v wrote:
Seeing as how the other Haffie was also deliberately handicapped, I am confident this was done intentionally to conform to some speed limiting law.


You have mentioned this a couple of times - given the already slow speed of a Haflinger, what sort of scenario are you thinking of that require a haflinger to go even slower than it does - I can think of better ways related to fuelling to achieve this rather than stopping the use of gears.

However I agree that what they have done is totally weird.

Garry

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:54 am 
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The only scenario that I can fathom is that they were registered as agricultural vehicles. I was chatting with a buddy of mine from Belgium and he said that they also have speed limits for agricultural vehicles. I dont think its so much to limit acceleration as it is to limit top speed.

Either way, its a giant pain in the ass and there are so many parts I have discovered I need to buy now, haha!

Ive gotten the trans and engine out of the white one today. Found that it too has a leaky wheel cylinder, bad limiting strap and control arm that is completely rusted away where the radius rod and shock attaches. On the other side, there has been a mysterious gear oil leak where the shock bolt goes, so I suspect there is enough rust there that it leaks from the control arm?

I hope I am an expert by the time I am done with this, lol!

So, putting the Krawler gear back together, I still dont know if I am missing parts yet. I have included a pic of the springs and balls that I got out of it. Any way to confirm I am missing or not missing anything?

I am getting a new clutch disc as well as the brake parts from Dale. Hes been a great help as well. Anything else you guys can think of that I might need to do while its this far apart? I know I have to take the front ends apart too.

Are there shimming tolerances that need to be minded with respect to installing a different gearbox to a torque tube that it wasnt mated to before? I did notice there is a shim.

Lastly, the gearbox out of the white one made a whining noise in 2nd. I supposed I should take that gearbox apart and inspect as well?

Again, thanks for all the continued help!


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