oil seals and gatters cont,

[Tajman]

Carrying on from the previous post in general topics, I have been gradually getting to the heart of the leaky oil problem. I was assuming that there were oil seals in the diff on the shaft before it entered the swinging arm. Now I realise that its the gatter( sorry Gaiters) that are leaking. So after some previous good advice from Garry and John, I will get some split gaiters and replace allround. Two things though, why are they mounted with the flanges on the bottom? and what is the best mastic/sealer to use when fitting. In boat building I have always used a Polyuathane based adhesive /mastic like Sikaflex as it seams to be ok with rubber, synthetic materials and oil. Just to note the front wheel/cv joint rubbers seem in good condition.
So the remaining two leaks to deal with are as shown in the Photos. One is an oil weep just above the brake bleed nipple on the rear hub. I have tweeked up the nuts but no success. I suspect a gasket leaking. Also on that wheel hub , I have a broken wheel stud to deal with.
On the same half shaft there is an oil leak ( see picture) appears to be coming from one of the pins that holds the swing arm on the diff casing, the parts manual shows some seals/o,rings in that area. I will have to strip it first to see, any tips? But I am hoping I can leave the shaft in place and just with draw the swinging arm and hub assembly. Maybe take the hub assembly of first as I need to sort that other weep. Phew , I need a lie down!
In my spare time !?! I had a go at making some suspension limiters as I have done some rigging in the past. Well it turned out to difficult to get the wires taught and judge the correct finished length, so back to the drawing board with that one. Thanks for now .
Jeff

[AustHaflinger]

Yes the swing arms are not sealed from the diffs so I do not put the seams on the bottom - mine are mid way - either the front or rear. My logic is that having the seams at the bottom there is a chance they can open with movement. Also use small washers on the boot nuts and bolts as they tend to pull through the rubber otherwise.

I used simple engine RTV silastic - sikaflex tends to be a glue/sealer and you do not want the boots glued. I put silastic sealer on all the joints that touch metal and along the join in the boots.

The swing arm pins/fulcrums require lubrication and this is provided by the diff oil - hence the leaks. The pins have hole in them that allow oil to pass from the diff - older pins even have little wicks to soak up the oil. There are o rings on the fulcrums to stop the oil leaking out but they do not work well - mine all drip a little despite renewing the O rings a couple of times.

Also be aware that there are different size pins to take into account of wear in the system - worn pins can also cause leaks.

As you work on these vehicles you will find some odd design aspects that will make you wonder - what were they thinking. CV/swing arm design with swing arms full of oil is one them as is diff oil lubricated fulcrums instead of greased bearings/bushes.

Good luck with it - fun fun fun - oh and wait until you have to remove the rear swing arms and get the fulcrum pins out.

Garry

[heinkeljb]

The parts book shows the split gaiters being installed with the split being underneath and towards the front. I assume there is a reason. Maybe it is a position that collects less dirt? Maybe it flexes less? Maybe like the thinks of a Haf, just because they could?

Use a non hardening mastic to seal the seam and the joints to the metal surfaces to ensure no leaks from those places.

The fulcrum pins are a terrible design for the weeping leak issue. You can try turning the pin around a quarter turn and see it that improves things. Failing that, you will have to take the whole swing arm / diff side plate off in order to sort out the fulcrum pins. Make a tool - for rear hubs, a flat plate you can bolt across the drive shaft with a hole in line with the drive shaft. Now you can put a nut and threaded rod through the hole to push against the drive shaft. With the nuts undone on the diff side plates, you can wind up the threaded rob thereby pulling the swing arm and side plate from the diff housing whilst leaving the drive shaft in the diif! THis gets round the problem of trying to get the "stones" back in the diff when you can't see what you are doing in a space no fingers fit in!!!

The rear leak hub sounds like the "O" ring behind the flat plate has given up. Undo the four nuts, take off the plate and replace the "O" ring. Obviously if you have a broken wheel stud, you are going to have to take out the hub flange. Do this by taking off that plate. Put a long breaker bar on the other remaining studs and the floor, undo the nut at the back of the hub flange shaft. Make note of any shims, spacers etc. Now you can take the hub flange out and using heat and a vice you can replace the broken stud.

Enjoy the delights of Haflinger ownership!

John

[Czechsix]

Regarding the limit straps, I've made mine in the past but unfortunately left the jig in storage a few thousand miles away. I don't think the wood setup will give you enough rigidity to get good tension. I used a solid aluminum bar 3" wide, 1" thick, and about 25" long. I drilled undersized holes into it at the proper locations and pressed sections of drill stock into the holes as locating pins, but figuring the dimensions out took a few tries. Hopefully I'll be picking up the items in storage within the next year, I'll try to make a note to myself to post up the process with some pics and dimensions once I get the jig back in possession.

Of course, now that I got the haffy back home after a few thousand miles of trailering, the passenger side limit strap has broken. For now I'll probably just use a thick nylon strap that's a half inch shorter than stock. Once I get the jig back I'll be manufacturing another strap and slap that on. The ones that I made for the rear are holding up fine.

[Tajman]

Thanks again , Garry and John.
I will put a new seal behind the square plate on the hub. But I am fairly sure the oil leak was the gasket . The wheel stud was completely missing so just to fit a new one. From the attached picture you can see where I am at now. Ready to take the arm and diff plate off. Hopefully tomorrow. I can see the dreaded stones in there, after removing the gaiter. I want to try and remove the swinging arm and leave the shaft. Do I need to take off the nut and cog at the outer end of the shaft or will the swinging arm slid over it? I am still trying to get my head round John's suggestion of the plate and threaded bar and plate and not quite sure how to tackle that. I do wonder whether the diff lock fork mechanism will cause me a problem.
It seems to much of a coincidence that all 3 problems are on the same corner of the vehicle, ie the wheel stud, the 2 oil leaks and there seems a fair amount of play in the fulcrum pins. Maybe there was an incident to that corner.
Luckily I am working on the chassis at waist level on trestles After several weeks on my knees it made sense to do that.
Tomorrow's another day!
Thanks,
Jeff

[heinkeljb]

Look at your picture:-

Remove nut and cog.
Get a flat bar or other suitable piece of metal, it has to be long enough to cross the drive shaft and you will find that two of the holes in the back plate will allow the plate to cross the center of the drive shaft.

Two long bolts and nuts will allow you to fix the piece of metal so you can drill a hole directly over the centre of the drive shaft. Then through that hole you put a long bolt or threaded bar and nut so the action of holding the threaded bar still and “undoing” the nut on the side of the drive shaft will work like a puller to pull the swing arm off the drive shaft along with the side plates.

I will add a drawing showing things, IPhone is not the best editing program for this sort of thing

Not the best drawing I have ever done, but hopefully you can see how having a piece of metal attached to the hub with a threaded rod with a nut would act as a puller to pull the axle from the diff housing is all those nuts were undone.
John

[AustHaflinger]

Just a tip related to putting the drive shaft back into the diff and aligning the stones - get some very thick grease and grease up the little shafts that the stones fit on and then also grease the shaft end of the stones when they are in place on the shaft (the grease will help stop the stones turning when you try to push the shaft into the diff and the grease will disolve in the diff oil later) - align the stones with the slots in the diff, and try to insert. In reality your success rate will only be about 1 in 10 goes as the stones may still spin despite the grease - but 1 in 10 goes is better than none in 10 goes. Imagine what it is like to do if you also have a non split boot in the way.

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

I want to try and remove the swinging arm and leave the shaft. Do I need to take off the nut and cog at the outer end of the shaft or will the swinging arm slid over it?

That maybe easier said than done - not sure - see the third page of this thread. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3291&start=20

In that thread I had to replace my rear hub gears and the axle shaft on one side kept on slipping out of the diff over and over - each time requiring those stones to be realigned for the shaft to fit back in (thank goodness for my split boots. The other side axle did not slip out.

On investigating I found out that there is supposed to be a circlip that holds the axle in the swing arm to stop the axles coming out but allowing about an inch of movement - mine was missing so the axle kept on coming out.

So, in you case this circlip may mean that when you pull the swing arm, the axle will come with it because of this circlip.

However given your pic above where you have full access above and below the axle coming out of the diff will not be such a big issue anyway.

Good luck with it

Garry

"Thanks to Dale from Haflinger Technik I have found out why my axle was able to slip out. At the hub end of the swing arm there is a bearing that supports the end of the axle and this is held in place with a circlip that also prevents the axle sliding out an inch or so.

When working on the hubs I did notice that there was a circlip on the failed hub but not on the other but didn't think much of of it as when assembled the circlip doesn't do much."

[Tajman]

Yes John thanks for that, whilst making up the plate for pulling off the swinging arm leaving the shaft in place, I remembered I had a puller that might do the job. Once the joint where the flanges of the diff casing and the side plate had opened, the puller gently took the swinging arm and diff plate away. But at one point I had to remove the fork of the diff lock lever as there is an oil seal in the casing it passes through. So all in all pleased it went well. I did have another pair of hands with a younger brain than mine!
Garry, there were circlips holding in the bearings but none stopped the the withdrawal of the casings. At present the stones are still in place with the shaft.
I now have the rest of the bits on the bench. I could not find in the manual how to remove the fulcrum threaded pins. Being threaded, I presume they turn out by using an improvised tool in the slot in the ends. They would not shift. Well for now , I have cleaned it all up and left it soaking in plus-gas release fluid. I understand that if there is wear there, you can get different sized fulcrum pins.
Thanks for your comments with regard the restraint straps Czechsix. Are you still in Alaska? I know its a big place, but as we are on a vehicle that goes anywhere forum, I can mention that we sent some hovercraft out there some years ago. During my boat building career , I worked for Griffon Hoverwork and we made craft for export all over the world. They are pretty good on ice and snow. Many being used by Coastguard in the Baltic.
Ok thanks again for now.
Jeff

[heinkeljb]

Getting seized fulcrum pins to move is a real pain! Soak and possibly some heat should free them. You can turn them through 90 degrees to take up wear (if that hasn’t been done already)!!!!
You can buy oversized one officially but good luck trying to actually find some! Might just be easier to buy the whole lot, pin, bushes, seals. Then all you have issues with is getting the bushes in the axle and having the holes reamed to make sure the hole line up properly.

Did you get my pm?

John