Fulcrum pins

[heinkeljb]

I have heard of people using a very thin cutting blade in an angle grinder and cutting the fulcrum pins where the rubber “O” rings fit. That would then leave you with much smaller parts to have to remove.

Obviously cleaning up all the other bits you have taken off will keep you busy for a while. There are lots of bits on a Haf which gets dirty every time you take it out!!

John

[Tajman]

So still finding the two problem fulcrum pins , well a problem! The last engineers I took it to welded a fitting on the pin to enable a better purchase for undoing. They would not risk doing the job and gave it back to me with a repair to the alloy casting!?!. So after another week of soaking in a WD40 bucket I managed to get it moving with heat. Trouble was that it was the inner helicoil screwing out with the pin. Then the top of the pin and welded fitting broke off. Well I did have a 3 ft pipe on the wrench. At this point I lost most of my cool and started to drill the pin out. As suggested on You tube , I used a sharp masonry drill-- Carbide tip, as the new cobalt drills would not touch it. The masonry drill worked,( slow to medium speed drill, dry ,no lube) so at the moment I am through with a 10 mm bit. In the mean time I have borrowed an Ultra sonic cleaner. I can immerse the pin area into a solution of hot detergent and vinegar for 30 mins or so.
Hoping that will release some of the crud around the pin without damaging the ally casting. Well the solution got dirty so something happened. Straight back into the bucket of WD40 and now deciding which way to go as now I have nothing left to grip and turn.
My thoughts are also going towards how I will reassemble this strange design feature ( if I manage to get the pins out!) I am thinking of putting in new pins, blocking off the oil ways and drilling to thread in grease nipples in the swinging arms. Anybody done anything similar or have any suggestions ? Most of this is at least helping me to "Social Distancing" .No one is likely to enter my man cave with the air blue.
Jeff.

[heinkeljb]

Jeff,

Do you have access to a Dremel type tool? If so you could try cutting a slot back in the pin. I assume the welded on nut / bolt will have filled the original slot in. Then use a hammer and punch to try tapping the pin round.
If it is still stuck on the helicoil section, then the only thing I think you can do is cut though the pin with a thin cutting blade in an angle grinder.

Put it back together with standard fittings. Putting a grease nipple on the pins would work, but I think it would be a lot of work to setup and you will have to see if you can get a grease gun to fit once the pins are in place. I think there probably is space, but it might mean a specific grease gun just for those.

I would NOT use "Easy Outs" if they are of the tapered design, as they tighten up the obviously put more an more pressure on the wall of the hole they are in forcing the thread to be even tighter into the ally casting. Might be enough to break those pegs off. You can get parallel sided "easy outs", these rely on you hammering them into the hole and the sharp edges on the "easy outs" cutting into the fulcrum pin. As the fulcrum pin is hard, this probably won't work as well as it should - the sharp ribs on the "easy out" will likely blunt and so not bite in to the fulcrum pin nicely.

John

[Tajman]

Ok Thanks John. I did use the dremel to cut off the pin as the shaft of the tool would just fit inside the groove in the clamp bolt slot so the pin is cut off inside there. Then I drilled out to 10mm.But the "helicoil" is wound out and jammed in this area. Yes I am ashamed of what a mess I have got in! I will post a photo later. Trying to decide how I will go forward now and what to do if and when I get it out. Then there is still one more to deal with.
I have attached a picture I downloaded/copied from Facebook page of the club. Apologies if this not the correct thing to do. Anyway it shows hexhead "bolt head"type fulcrum pins. Have you seen these type before?
Disappointed that the 4x4 meet was cancelled, still hoping to see another Haflinger up close and in the wild. But looks like it will be some time with our current situation. Hope you are well.
Jeff .

[heinkeljb]

Hi Jeff,

Yes I have see the pictures of the drive train on a Facebook page, but hadn’t noticed the hex head on the fulcrum pins. They are obviously that particular persons adaption / self produced version. The original sort is obviously what the various suppliers have, but that variation might be a good option if you had a suitable lathe to make your own. Hardening the pins after making them might prove a bit difficult if you don’t have a kiln to heat them up properly.
Had we not have to stay at home, I could have driven down to you one weekend or something. I was planning to go to a dutch rally (Treffen), but with the various restriction on travel being placed on us and on travel in countries in Europe, I have given up on that idea this year!
There are various pictures, video of Lurch linked on this forum if you haven’t already looked through them.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Recently from Prokshi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsf3AB2OIp8

[Tajman]

Yes John, never mind , I'm sure we and the Haflingers will meet up sometime in the not to distant future.
I have been thinking maybe to use new similar replacements, to put a grease nipple on the slotted end of the fulcrum pin, an angled or 90 degree one should fit without fouling the clutch housing or speedo cable housing (both front and rear on the left side are a problem). And then tap/thread a bolt and washer on the inside of the pin to stop the grease going any further, that way it would find its way into the original holes in the pin and lubricate the thread/pin area. Having read that even replacing new pins and seals , it often still leaks oil in that area if you go down the conventional route.
Gary?- AustHaflinger posted a you tube video of interest. I could go for the best and last way with the machined bushes and non metal sleeves. I like it but I'll need to find the right machine shop/person at reasonable cost, somewhere. Thanks for that AustHaflinger.
Reluctantly, I have attached a couple of photos showing the state of affairs I have found myself in of my own doing.
Jeff.

[AustHaflinger]

Yes it is Garry - forgot to put it on the bottom of my post.

I have been following your thread and your issues with interest but unfortunately I have not been able to give much advice - mainly because I have not had the issues you have had - all my front fulcrum pins just came out easily and on the rear because of the issue undoing the rear pins in place I have not done them - but they were not seized up.

I am at a bit of a loss as to why yours are so difficult as most that have posted on here, as per my own experience, have been relatively easily to resolve.

Neverthless you clearly have major issues - thankyou for documenting your experiences, albiet painful experiences as they will be helpful for many in the future.

Garry

[Tajman]

Thanks Garry, yes its a vehicle that has had a hard life and also stood around for many years. I found a previous post of yours with the list of videos by Prokshi and they are all very informative.
Its all a bit disconcerting at present as I have bits with various workshops and they are either closing down or down on staff. I am waiting for the new valve guides and valves to be fitted to the heads so I can continue to rebuild the engine. I have the other swinging arm and stuck fulcrum pin with another workshop where I am hoping to get something welded on the pin to help in trying to turn it.
I did manage to get the restraint straps made up. See picture and pleased with that. Quite reasonably priced, using 1 inch wide Jackstay webbing ( Chandlery shop supply for use on boats as a safety line with 3000kg breaking strain) The other picture is the chassis waiting for the left swinging arms and New brake gear and shockers.
In my mind I am thinking the new fulcrum pins would be better with the bolt and a bush made from hard wearing material. It may mean that I change all of them on the vehicle. I have a friend with a lathe I can use to turn up the bushes. In the hovercraft industry we used Vesconite for bearings on rudders and elevators. In the boat building trade it used to be Lignum Vitae , the hardest densest wood! It doesn't even float.

[AustHaflinger]

Yes I agree with your views on lubrication for the fulcrums - why not rubber bushes, with simple bolts like swing arms on most other cars or even bronze bushes with grease nipples, - but no, the aim seems to be as complicated as possible.

Great alternative on the retaining straps - just so you know someone bought some suitable wire and made their own as per the original - if you search you may find it as it is on this forum but quite a few years back.

Cheers

garry

[heinkeljb]

Jeff,

Can you perhaps find some more drills that go up in size until you are almost at the diameter of the pin, then using a fine chisel try to peel the remaining layer of pin in to the hole? You might be able to do that sufficiently for you to remove the arm from the casting. Removing the remains from the casting might then be easier.

Another thought, You can buy a blade for a hacksaw which is a rod ~ 1.5mm diameter which is covered in some hard sharp stuff which allows you to cut in all directions. If you could get one of those through the gap between the leg and the casting you could cut through the pin like that. Only issue might be that the saw cut is likely to be wider than the gap. Still, you could get some Ally welding done to correct that if it is an issue.
There again, an angle grinder would achieve the same effect, and you could get any unwanted saw cuts welded up. Maybe have to do a bit of machining afterwards to tidy up the welding, but you could probably get away with just using a file and a dremel type tool for that.

John

[Tajman]

Yes Garry I did try with some 2.5 mm flexible wire (6x19) as I have done plenty of rigging in the past, even the odd wire splice, but I could not get the weave tight enough and there was the issue getting the finished length correct. A guy in Alaska posted that he had done it but had made a special metal jig. I never got to see that though. I,m happy with what I finished up with. All the original restraint straps were broken and very corroded.
John, I have a bench drill that has done the job so far, of drilling out the pin. But the size 12mm that would just drill through, I hope with out touching the inner ally casing, is just to long to go in the drill. A friend is waiting delivery on a full size floor standing drill and a quality lathe. I am lining up the jobs to do when he gets it!
I hope to chisel or cut with a blade , the remaining material as you suggest, when that drill has gone through. Whilst we are on " Covid 19 lock-down", I am keeping busy with lots of derusting of various parts ( I use Fertan - they used it on the old Submarine -Alliance, which is in the Submarine museum just up the road). and plenty of painting. I even dragged out the dash board today to see what work was required. Previously somebody had just cut all the wires off behind the instruments. Tomorrow I will get out the wiring loom and see if it matches up. All good fun !?!
Thanks for your posts. Hope you are all keeping well in these extraordinary times. Jeff

[heinkeljb]

I don't remember seeing a picture of a jig for making the limit straps either. Not sure how you would keep the tension on the wire as you turned it around at one end, fed it through all the other wire loops and then pull it tight to give you the bend at either end, because as you released the tension on the wire all ready in place, it would add 2 ~ 3mm of slack as you pulled it round!
There is obviously a way of doing it, maybe just trial and error on how tight you pull or when you release the tension or even where you have your clamp to get the tension on wire.
It is possible to buy the limit straps, but the one I bought came from a guy in South Africa and he only had the series 1 style - small hole not the series II style which is a bigger hole with a spacing tube washer to go on the bolt shaft. The theory being that the limit strap could then turn a bit during axle travel keeping the forces running straight down the limit strap rather than the wire having to bend due to the mounting point being locked in one direction.

John