Front Hubs

[heinkeljb]

That's the bit - I shall hang a bag of sugar on the bar mentioned as it a 1KG weigh. One the offside, i just reassembled the hub as I had not taken any of the bearings out - so hope the clearances are still the same.

On the nearside, because I have had to replace ALL the bearings, i thought it better to try and set the bearing preload for the wheel bearings. If the "washer" which is listed as coming in various thickness turns out to be wrong. Depending on which way it is wrong i.e. too much float or too little float, I will probably "cure" too much float by putting "normal" shim washers in. If it is too little, then I might try to take some material off the existing washer or might end up buying a couple from Dale.

This does seem a rather involved way of adjusting wheel bearing play. Why couldn't they have gone for a more conventional way of just tightening the end nut? I am sure the extra machining of a stop ring / circlip groove or what ever would have been just as easy.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks John - because I am not replacing the bearings I am just going to put mine back together and just torque it all up. Having gotten used to the quirks of British machinery nothing surprises me these days.

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

I have put my drivers side hub back together (even though it is slightly different to that displayed in the parts manual) and am trying to reinstall it to the swing arm but have struck a problem.

When I push the drive shaft on the hub into the drive shaft inside the swing arm it will not go all the way in and stops about 1/2" before it is home.

Any ideas??

I can feel that the drive shaft in the swing arm seems to have a spring on the inside end but the parts manual does not seem to show such a spring so I am wondering it the inside end is catching on the inner rubber boot - confused. Can the inner end come away from inside the diff??

Anyway the hub shaft will not go in.

Oh the end drive shaft inside the swing arm is only about 1/2" inside the swing arm where I would have thought it would have been about 2" inside. Is there something that is stopping this inner drive shaft going all the way in??

Thanks

Garry

[heinkeljb]

When I took my hubs off, the female end of the drive shaft was within a 1 cm of the oil seal at the end.You can push that part of the drive shaft back in towards the differential by about 8 cm or so.

I thought there was some thing not quite right as well, but took the hub off again and pulled the shaft back to the oil seal again. Made sure I got the splines lined up and tried again. Maybe your Rzeppa shaft is catching on the oil seal? You could see if there is some thing stuck in female part of the drive shaft with a welding rod - wouldn't be the first time some animal has decided a tunnel makes a nice home!

John

P.S. if you hubs look different from the parts book, can you post a picture? Would be nice to know what variations there are.

[heinkeljb]

Bo**ocks!!!

I was able to put the nearside hub back together again today and in the process have found a washer (item 27) on the parts book page dealing with the front hub(s).

Now, I can't remember if there was one in the offside hub! Doh!!

So. I will have to dismantle the offside hub to check if the washer is there or not... That means taking it apart to the point I an take out the Rzeppa joint (again), because you can't tell if the washer is there or not as the bearing is in the way.

I would like to believe that I would not have put it together without the washer as I kept referring back to the parts book to see that I was putting things back in the right order - but that washer does just does not ring a bell as having been there.

Can you take the hubs apart without having to take off the brake shoes? Or take out the swivel pins?

One step forward, two steps back!

John

[HaffyHunter]

Hi Garry,
To answer one of your questions, yes the drive shaft can easily disconnect from the differential's Cardan joint yoke and it sounds like this may have happened to you. The problem for you now is that you will need to remove the diff cover to put everything back in place. There is no easy way to get the "Stones" (Item 28-description from the Parts Manual) aligned in the differential's outdrive yoke (Item 29) otherwise. The procedure is to install the drive shaft and the joint stones in the yoke first then slide the diff side cover (with half-axle tube attached) over the drive shaft. It is quite likely that one or both of the stones has fallen from the drive shaft pins and is now blocking entry of the shaft in the yoke.
Here's a copy of the assembly diagram.
Cheers,
Steve

03_01_00.jpg (148.05 KiB) Viewed 6850 times

[AustHaflinger]

Bo**ocks!!!

I was able to put the nearside hub back together again today and in the process have found a washer (item 27) on the parts book page dealing with the front hub(s).

One step forward, two steps back!

John

When I was putting mine back together yesterday - logic indicated that this "spacer" rather than a washer should go on the other side of the bearing and I nearly put up a post asking about it - even took pics. Decided to put it closest to the CV - oh course as indicated in the parts diagram.

This is the spacer


This is where it goes


I would have thought that if you had a big thick 2mm thick washer left over it would have been obvious.

In theory you should be able to pull the hub apart insitu but getting it all back together insitu and getting everything all lined up will be problematic.

I thought I was the only person who did things like that - but I am getting old

Good luck with it

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

When I took my hubs off, the female end of the drive shaft was within a 1 cm of the oil seal at the end.You can push that part of the drive shaft back in towards the differential by about 8 cm or so.

Mine will not move in - feels like it is constrained by a spring - I think it has come away from the diff and the cross piece is catching on the inside of the rubber boot preventing it from going back into the diff - hence the springy restriction.

To answer one of your questions, yes the drive shaft can easily disconnect from the differential's Cardan joint yoke and it sounds like this may have happened to you. The problem for you now is that you will need to remove the diff cover to put everything back in place. There is no easy way to get the "Stones" (Item 28-description from the Parts Manual) aligned in the differential's outdrive yoke (Item 29) otherwise. The procedure is to install the drive shaft and the joint stones in the yoke first then slide the diff side cover (with half-axle tube attached) over the drive shaft. It is quite likely that one or both of the stones has fallen from the drive shaft pins and is now blocking entry of the shaft in the yoke.
Here's a copy of the assembly diagram.
Cheers,
Steve

Bummer - you have confirmed some of my thoughts - while all the stuff was out doing the hub I played around with the diff lock linkages and in doing so locked and unlocked the diff lock so this may have dislodged things.

I might remove the rubber boot on the diff end and have a look to see if the stones have come off - I have some new split style boots that I can put on so will not have to pull the lot apart.

As John said - Bollocks - not an Aussie term but it will have to do

Garry

[HaffyHunter]

Hi Garry,
You might be able to pull the boot back from the diff cover without harming the boot. That way you can save your split boot for a later time when the original gets a tear in it. BTW here's a tip, I've repaired torn boots with an inner tube patch kit and it worked like a charm.
Anyway, even if the stones are still on the drive pins it's nearly impossible to get them aligned to return into the outdrive yoke when the side cover is still in place. Hopefully good luck will be with you and you won't need to take too much apart.
Cheers,
Steve

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks Steve - I put a broom stick into the drive shaft to turn it and it is connected to the diff bit it would do that even if a stone had fallen out - there is still a spring type of resistance when you push the drive shaft into the diff and I can see nothing on the parts diagram that would cause this. i just do not know if there is an issue or not.

So I have decided to take the swing arm off and from there I should be able to see exactly what is going on. Unfortunately the manual says to "remove the RHS swing arm" without actually saying how to do it - it does describe the components and from that I take it that the two vertical bolts that clamp the fulcrum are removed and as the manual describes the bushes as being threaded so I am not sure if the fulcrum will just pull out of winds out - we will see. It would be nice to have decent workshop manual.

I guess I will see what happens - see what else I can break or damage.

John - have you had similar issues getting your hub back on?

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

Problem solved.

I took the swing arm off - was one of the easiest jobs I have done. All was well except the diff has no oil in it and there is evidence of moisture in the system but all seemed to be OK. With the swing arm out the hub went on OK with no binding around the oil seal in the swing arm. I the tried to put the slide the hub driveshaft into the swing arm drive shaft and it would only go on 3/4 of the way before it bound up and would go no further - so this was the issue. I inspected the splines on the hub driveshaft and spotted an area of minor impact damage - barely visible but enough to stop the splines sliding. I tidied it up a bit with the Dremel 1" cutting wheel and the other driveshaft then slid on OK.

I have put the swing arm and swing arm driveshaft back on and test fit the hub and it now goes on fine.

As mentioned above I could feel a spring system that was pushing the driveshaft out - I found this plunger arrangement which is designed to keep outward pressure on the driveshaft - while I can see this in the parts manual I cannot see this spring as an individual component so maybe it part of a larger assembly.

Any way - problem fixed - it looks like I was a little careless at some stage when working on the hub and something banged the splines and caused minor damage - lesson learnt - be more careful.

I hope my experience will be of help to someone else at some stage.

Cheers

Garry

[heinkeljb]

I do not remember that washer being in the offside hub when I took it apart - not that I was looking for it! So put the hub back together and usually, you have a washer or a nut left over - not this time, so no alarm bells.

When assembling the nearside hub, I had this washer..... It goes there.... (did I do the same for the other side?) ???? Don't remember!!! Agh!

I am glad you solved your drive shaft issue without too much dismantling / re-assembly.

John

[AustHaflinger]

The main issue in not having that spacer in is that the end of the shaft (the castle nut end) could move by the equivalent amount to the thickness of the spacer and maybe touch the hub casing and wear it - then again the friction of the main bearing at the CV and and the inner race of the bearing on the castle nut end may be enough to ensure the shaft remains where it should.

My hub did not have the circlip in the parts manual that goes between the CV end bearing and the small drive cog but it does not seem to have made any difference to the operation of the hub.

I guess it would be nice if someone came along and said that the spacer was not important but I don't think that is likely.

Good luck

Cheers

Garry

[heinkeljb]

What a waste of time!

Took the hub off, came off really nicely obviously as it had only just gone back together. Didn't take the brake shoes off as the bolts holding the two halves together are in open space.

Took the small cog off, knocked out the Rzeppa shaft - bloody washer is in there! Still I am looking at it as being good practice for when you have to take it apart to change the grease in the Rzeppa joints!

Wasn't such a wasted day either as I discovered two things which will require replacement or welding if they are not available.

The nearside hub was definitely the worst side with neglect / water damage etc. This is the side I had to replace all the bearings in. I discovered that the top metal plate (item 18) in the parts book on the spring had a split which corresponded to the end of the spring. - I then checked the nearside one when I took it off to remove that hub, guess what? It has fatigue cracks staring in exactly the same place!
See picture - so you can check yours!

Top spring plate.jpg (69.15 KiB) Viewed 6827 times

So that's both side that will new top plates or atleast repairs.

Out of interest - can you take the metal part (item 16) out without having to try to undo the circlip that joins it to the washer (item 15)?

Atleast I have two hubs back on the drive shafts - Need to put brake shoes back on the nearside and then bleed the brakes to see if all the work i have done makes a difference...

John

[AustHaflinger]

Out of interest - can you take the metal part (item 16) out without having to try to undo the circlip that joins it to the washer (item 15)?

John

It is good to see you are making progress - I checked my spring plates and all is OK - I haven't pulled my assembly down further so cannot answer you question above.

You know Murphy's law - if you didn't pull the hub apart you could guarantee that the spacer washer was not in there - at least you found the cracks in the plates - were all the cushioning rubbers in place - mine were but are cracked on the outside but not where it counts.

Progress is being made all round which is good - three steps forward - one step back.

Cheers

Garry

[HaffyHunter]

Out of interest - can you take the metal part (item 16) out without having to try to undo the circlip that joins it to the washer (item 15)?

Hi John,
Unless I misunderstood the parts section you referred to there is no circlip associated with Item 15 & Item 16. Are you referring to the special nut (Item 16) and retainer plate (Item 15) that are located inside the hollow rubber spring? If so, these are only held together, along with spring washer (Item 26) and plain washer (Item 20) as well as spacer (Item 17) and upper spring support (Item 18), by the threaded end of the road spring supporting cone (Item 21)
Cheers,
Steve

[heinkeljb]

Yes I mean item 15 & 16 inside the rubber spring. Item 16 is either rusted into the item 15 (plain washer) or item 26 is in the wrong place and is acting like a circlip. At least that is my interpretation of what I can see of things in there.
Obviously the plain washer is just too big to fit through the bottom access hole just by falling out. So I assume you have to force it either when putting it in or when taking it out? I would just like to clean it up a bit whilst I wait for a answer from Dale at Haflinger Technik on whether he has the upper support plate.
Didn't what to try forcing it our is that's not the way to do it!

John

[HaffyHunter]

Hi John,
Yes, they are likely rusted together and yes you will need to force the special nut and backing plate through the bottom hole of the rubber spring. I used some liquid dish soap to lubricate the opening and pushed the parts through using a length of steel round stock. I couldn't get a firm grip on the parts to pull them through the hole so pushing with the round stock bar was the only option. These parts were very rusted on my truck but I was able to restore them and have sealed them with an industrial epoxy coating.
Cheers,
Steve

[heinkeljb]

I am getting a pair of used top plates as Haflinger Technik don't have them new. Hopefully, they are in much better shape than the ones I have currently. I will get my old ones welded up at some point so I have a couple of spares.
Noticed some thing else whilst dealing with the front hub / axle - not noticed before probably because of all the muck! - The top axle carrier on the nearside is missing a bit (lower left corner)! Whilst I don't think it is a REAL structural part of the carrier I asked if Halinger Technik had a replacement, as it would not do for the whole thing to fail and drop the axle and hub off after all the time / effort / money spent on it! They do and at a very reasonable price so have had to buy one of those as well.

I wonder why the nearside was so bad compared to the other side? Has it been standing in a puddle for a long time? Was that side parked over grass and the other side not?

Oh well, nearly fixed - I hope!

John

[AustHaflinger]

If you got your swivel/king pin kit from Haflinger Tecknik recently be aware that the o ring that goes at the top of the top king pin is too large - is 22mm instead of 20mm so keep your old ones or get some locally. I have advised John Hamilton at Haflinger Tecknik of the issue and he has confirmed that the kits do have the wrong size o ring and he is fixing. Not a real issue (they are only worth a few cents) but did have me confused for a little while as I thought I did something wrong.

In putting the hub back on the swing arm I fail to see what the bottom ball, spacer and shim do. Items 62, 55 and 57 below



I could understand if these were holding the lower swivel pin (64) in place put the large castle nut (38) pulls everything up to the correct position. So not sure what this lot is for other than the cover and o-ring (56,65) keeping the dirt out.

Garry