Front Hubs

[heinkeljb]

I have been slowly doing a rebuild on my front hubs as there was play in the swivel pins and on the way home the drivers side hub started spewing oil.

Finally starting to put one hub back together only to find I am missing one little brake bearing pin. So there I am trying to tighten up the bolts that hold the two halves of the hub together only have to stop because I need to order one of those....

So just a reminder to anyone else - Be careful dismantling and storing all the bits AND check you have all the parts you need before trying to put it all back together!

I have to say, the brake bearing pins did not seem to be lose when I took things apart and the others are all in place still.

SO now I wait again for bits.

John

[walderse]

John,
By "brake bearing pin" are you referring to the cylindrical pin notched in the middle that accepts the upper portion fo the brake shoe steel frame? It appears you must be getting very clsoe to completing the process.
Take care.

Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com

[heinkeljb]

Only the first hub I pulled apart! So I still have the second hub to do.

I have to wait for weekends to be able to do anything and the weather has not been conducive to working outside.

I also discovered that I don't have any spring washers left, so will have to go and buy some more to replace all the missing ones.

Yes, that is the bit. Brake bearing pin is what the parts book calls it (on the rear brake section not the front)

Out of interest,I am struggling to understand how and why it has the lower bearing cup, ball bearing and upper bearing cup bit - I have on sale or return all the sizes of the washer but have found that I either have some(a small amount of) axial play in the lower swivel pin or is is so tight I can't turn the pin by hand.
I have opted for the small amount of play.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Just about to start pulling my drivers hub apart - it leaks badly on the inside of the hub and not into the brakes so I take it that the oil seal on the axle at the top of the portal is leaking.

Looking forward to the fun fun fun

[heinkeljb]

Curing that particular leak is only an oil seal BUT if you have the same outlook on this as me, you will end up replacing a lot more because it is worn and you don't want to have to take it apart AGAIN!

Check the swivel pins for wear before you take it apart i.e. jack up and rock the wheel and see if there is movement in the swivel pins.
You will need the oil seal Item 18, item 25 which is a piece of wire 2mm diamenter rather than a split pin for some reason. Item 9 the paper gasket.

I am still in the process of doing my hubs, I have gone for a LOT of bits extra as the swivel pins / bushes were worn. So I have gone for all the oil seals and "o" rings, new seals and ring for the Rzeppa joint (I also noticed that Item 28 was very worn. It wasn't leaking on mine, but the wear was going to make it spill oil sooner rather than later so item 68 item 28 and item 26 have also been replaced.

Having done the swivel joints /bushes I also have to deal with item 62 (thick washer) as the end flaot is now different from what it was.

Obviously all new split pins where needed and replacing all the missing split washers which for some reason are not there- I blame the same gremlin who steals single socks from the washing machine!

I still have the passenger side to do as I have not space to store anything whilst it is in pieces.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks John - I have those parts so will probably start tomorrow if it is not too hot. Everything seems tight. Yesterday I went to move my Haffie from the backyard to the front where I will do the work and it would not drive over a 1' high wall so engaged the difflocks but the front one just flopped around - looking underneigh all the linkages are OK but it is not connected inside the front diff so it looks like the diff needs to come out.

Cheers

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Does the lever actually move the pin in and out of the diff? On mine the funny "H" shaped intermediate lever system had seized and my front diff lock would not engage.

If you do have to take the diff to pieces, just remember to drain the oil and keep the drain plug OUT. The magnet on the top of it makes it too tall to remove the internal without hitting it. I am still not 100% sure if I have a bit of magnet stuck to some thing in there as when I drained my diff the magnet was missing from the plug.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Mine does move in and out so something has come adrift inside the diff.

[AustHaflinger]

Ok work started - I have the same basic issues so if it is OK I would like to post here.

I have read up on the 1962 service book and the parts manual. My hub seems to be leaking somewhere from the bottom of the hub so maybe a damaged gasket rather than the oil seal on the input shaft at the top. I have the spring out, and disconnected the bits and pieces. One thing I am not sure of is when I have undone the kingpins does the who hub with CV joint and short axle shaft just pull out.
Oh I spoke too soon - I need new kingpins all round.

On the front diff and diff lock - all the linkages are all in place and if I hold the lever in the up position it does lock the diff but it will not stay locked unless I physically hold the lever up. So it would seem the mechanism that keeps the lock in is not working - I cannot tell if it is a spring or ball bearing detent. Can someone clarify. In any case the front diff needs to come out.

Again I have read up on removing the diff. Can someone clarify that one the bolts to the tube are removed and it is unbolted from the front frame and all the rest of the bits are undone it just slides forward and the diff pinion and drive shaft from the rear to the front just part company via the splines? Any thing to particularly look for??

It is 6pm here and still 35degrees C so this is going to be hot work over the next week or so.

My workplace




Look what I found when I removed the seat - so much for a Haffie in great condition requiring minimal work


Garry

[heinkeljb]

Once you pull the top and bottom king pins (swivel pins) then the whole hub can just be pulled straight from the side of the Hafi - the Rzeppa joint has splines that go up the shaft in the swing arm.

If you disconnect the lever system to the front diff lock and just try pushing it in by hand - does it stay in?

If you your hub is leaking on the inboard side, then there are 3 places it is likely to leak from. the top shaft oil seal, the gasket between the two halves, the fill and drain bolts. Unless you are unlucky and have a hole in the aluminium castings.

You will need a blind bearing puller to get the top king sleeve out as it is a blind hole. I saw a possible method if you do not have a "proper" puller. Find an expanding wall anchor fastener - like those used to fix satellite dishes to the outside wall of the right size, then having heated the aluminium casting with a hot air gun. Expand the anchor fastener in it and pull.

Bottom one can be done with a piece of studding and nuts and washers and sockets as you can get to both sides.

That's a very small hole to have to patch compared to what you could have found. It is also in a nice easy place to get at, very little fabricating to make a good repair patch unlike some places e.g. front corner, repair need in three directions!

John

[AustHaflinger]

The rust holes will be easy to weld up - just annoying.

I haven't pulled off the linkages to the front diff lock off yet - a question for the wise ones - is the diff lock held in the engaged position from within the diff or by the lever in the cab (if the later will save pulling the diff out).

Another question for the wise re getting the front hub off. I have removed the bottom king pin but am not sure how to get the top one out so the hub will pull off. With the top pin I have removed the cross cotter pin but cannot work out how to get the pin out - advice would be appreciated. I notice that when viewed from the top I see a threaded hole in the top but am not sure if that is relevant.

Happy about getting the bushes out.

Cheers

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Top pin is pulled upwards using in theory a 7mm threaded bolt / stud. Only my one wasn't 7mm it was 8mm. Problem is most slide hammers are to big to fit - BUT - your new hole might prove to be fortuitous!

I put a picture on the Yahoo group showing my use of an eye bolt, a bar and a jack. I use the jack (and the handle / bar) to provide a pivot point and the bar though the eye which is screwed in tot he king pin. Then heat the casting. A big hammer to hit the bar upwards to pull the pin out.

Mine was so seized I ended up using a "Dremel" type cutting disc to put a slot in the top of the pin so I could use a punch to get it turning.

You could make a cup with a hole in it, to go over the top of the pin and then just tighten to pull the pin out.

If like me, you failed because the thread stripped. You might be able to tap the pin, but I would suggest welding a stud to the top of the pin if possible then pulling that upwards.

John

[HaffyHunter]

Hi Garry,
The difflock linkage does not have a spring nor a detent ball to hold the lever in the locked position. The whole works should stay in place due to three aspects of the linkage design. First, there is the friction bushing mounted in the floor plate where the handlever passes through. This bushing should have three metal bearing surfaces bonded to its rubber sleeve. If any of these have been lost then insufficient pressure is applied to the handlever shaft. Secondly, the fork end that protrudes from the side of the diff housing is on a threaded shaft. When the fork length is adjusted correctly, the internal sliding ring in the diff housing will fully engage and remain so quite firmly until the hand lever is depressed with a bit of effort. Lastly, the geometry of the linkage contributes to the maintaining of the locked position provided that none of the hinge points are seized from corrosion nor overly loose from wear.
Cheers,
Steve

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks John - once I could find the right bolt the pin came straight out using the curved end of a crow bar using that top ball in the hub casting as a fulcrum point.

I assume this grove is not supposed to be there and is where the oil seal in the swing arm has worn a groove - speedi-sleeve is needed I think


Steve - thanks for your advice - as the Diff lock will actually lock but not stay locked I think your advise is spot on - when I have finished fixing the hub I will pull all the linkages out and check all the things you suggest - it seems awfully loose.

Thanks

Garry

[HaffyHunter]

Hi Garry,
You are correct. The groove should not be in the sealing surface. The oil seal may be set deep or shallow to avoid this groove or, in my case, I purchased smaller I.D. seals and lightly machined/polished the surface with my lathe as I could not find a source of speedi-sleeves locally.
Cheers,
Steve

[heinkeljb]

That bit as pointed out should not have a grove in it. Mine were much worse than that one! I bought new ones from HaflingerTechnik as being easier, but expensive.

Now that I have the 2 old ones, I was going to see what sort of cost would be involved in getting them hot metal sprayed and then reground to the original size. Somewhere that does engine crank reconditioning could probably do it.
Cheaper by far would be Steve's option if you can find a suitable oil seal.
Speedi-sleeves would work if you can make sure they will stay in place and you can find the right size.

Glad your top pin came out with no trouble. Mine took a lot of effort!

John

[AustHaflinger]

I have to say, the brake bearing pins did not seem to be lose when I took things apart and the others are all in place still.

SO now I wait again for bits.

John

I bought a speedy sleeve today and will fit it tomorrow - expensive little suckers. Also got a price on a swivel pin kit - £270 for both sides - that certainly took the wind out of my sails. I am surprised the pins/bearing are not a conical arrangement that would allow tightening up as they wear - as it is, the smallest amount of wear means replacement rather than just tightening up. My swivel pins were just a bit loose so do I need the whole kit are just new bearings?

Hopefully the weather will be better tomorrow so I can do the speedy sleeve and disassemble the hub. Was 42°C today so is a bit hot to be working outside.

garry

[pathfinder700ap]

I recently replaced the swivel pins on my chassis. Both the pins and the bushings were worn (both lower & upper). But if there is only a small play, it might be only the bushings. You may remove the hubs and investigate before you buy the parts.

Regards,
C.

[heinkeljb]

The bronze bushes you get in the kit are machined to fit the pins that come with them. If you want to change just the bushes you would have to get some which matched your "slightly" worn pins.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks for those comments - I have the hub apart now and when I have put the king pins in their bushes they are quite loose - certainly much worse than they appeared when installed on the car - so as I do not want to do this again I will raid the piggy bank and get the full set.

Speedy sleeve is on


The hub is apart but I am stumped on how the roller bearing comes off the CV input shaft into the hub? As it is a bearing I am reluctant to try different approaches and I find the "handbook" less than helpful on this aspect and I have been following the exploded diagram from the parts book. Advice on this would be appreciated.


There is nothing obvious for why it was leaking so I will put in a new input oil seal and reassemble.