Oil Levels

[AustHaflinger]

A quick question.

When replacing oil in the hubs, gearbox and diff - do you have to measure the required amount of oil out before hand and put it in or (like most other vehicles) do you just fill up to the bottom of the filler hole and this automatically gives you the correct amount of oil?

Thanks

Garry

[Rick K]

Garry. I believe the correct level is to the bottom of the filler holes. Cheers Rick

[heinkeljb]

I am sure either the repair manual or the users guide says fill to till oil comes out of the filler hole. I suppose we have to assume this is when on level ground or it would not make much sense.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Another newby type question.

A previous owner has painted all the lubrication filler and grease points bright red. Under all the gunk on top of the centre chassis tube just behind the front diff I spotted a little bit of red and found a filler plug for the center tube - however the parts manual shows this as a drain plug (on top seems odd).

So:
1. why does the centre tube need oil??
2. I put my finger in there and I can feel oil - the owners book says it takes .5l - so how do you tell if you have the correct level in there and how do you get the old oil out - I cannot see a drain plug so I assume you suck it out and measure out the new oil before it goes in. The size of the tube makes it obvious that you do not fill it up to the top like the other oil reservoirs.

As Forrest Gump's mother would say "Working on a Haflinger is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna find."

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Well I can answer first question, it needs oil because it has bearings inside. I must admit I have not looked at that bit very closely, other than like you to see an access point.

Would seem very strange to force you to "suck" oil out of the tube when every other place on the vehicle which has oil has drain plugs. The "fill till it comes out the hole", would seem not to apply in this case if it only requires 0.5 L of oil.

I will have a read of both the repair manual and the handbook and see if I can find anything relating to this. I'll have to do mine as well at some point!

John

[Julian B]

A previous owner has painted all the lubrication filler and grease points bright red.

Nothing like as cheap as a daub of paint, but I have used these caps in the past, and have been very happy with them; easy to identify, and keeps the nipples clean.

[HaffyHunter]

Hi Garry,

The red paint that you found on the lube points was done by the factory to all Haffys. You'll find the red dabs on all the filler plugs and grease fittings if corrosion hasn't erased it away. The factory even put it on the grease fittings located on the parking brake cable and the clutch cable tube.

The center tube oil needs to be sucked out to replace then a measured amount poured or pumped back in. There is a service bulletin that gave instruction to correct a problem in early models where oil would transfer from the gearbox to the central tube or vice versa (I forget which). I'll locate and post a copy of the service bulletin a little later.

Cheers,
Steve

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks for the responses - I assume the oil just runs back and forth in the tube when going up and down hills lubricating the centre shaft bearing and when straight and level the oil is deep enough in the tube to be picked up as the bearing is turning.

My filler had clearly not been touched in a long time so I think I will suck it out and replace.

My haffie is a 73 model so may not have the issue that the service bulletin was about.

Cheers

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

I changed all the oils in the front drive system no issues.

Today I went to just top up oils in the rear drive train system. I can sort of understand why there are two drain plugs in the gearbox/reardiff unit but I do not understand why there are two filler plugs - obviously there for a reason but can someone please explain why two fillers are needed.

On the gear change housing on the side of the gearbox there is a drain at the bottom and a filler ??? plug in the rear face of the housing (item 80 on 2 05/0 of the parts manual). I removed this plug to check/change oil and was surprised that a huge amount of oil came out which surprised me as the most I was expecting was a dribble. So is this right - if not where would this oil come from? If it is right where do you put the oil in.

As you can see - still learning.

Thanks

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

This is a pic of the area I am talking about.


I removed the filler plug in the centre of the pic (not the red one to the right). Lots of oil poured out which I was not expecting.

Should I have not touched it and just used the two red fillers.

Cheers

Garry

[walderse]

Garry,
The plug you removed is actually the access port for the M6-threaded cotter pin that links a fork to the vertical shaft the travels up and down in that rectangular side housing. The plug at the bottom of that housing has the same threat pitch/diameter as the plug you removed but has a bushing inset to accept the lower portion of ths vertical shaft. There is no harm in removing the plug you did but it is not necessary. Definitely use the red sdie plugs for the transmission oil refilling.

Take care.

Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks Jim - that explains it and I guess why it is not painted Red. I had now better top up the box with the oil I lost.

Cheers

Garry

[Julian B]

Garry,
The plug you removed is actually the access port for the M6-threaded cotter pin that links a fork to the vertical shaft the travels up and down in that rectangular side housing. The plug at the bottom of that housing has the same threat pitch/diameter as the plug you removed but has a bushing inset to accept the lower portion of ths vertical shaft. There is no harm in removing the plug you did but it is not necessary. Definitely use the red sdie plugs for the transmission oil refilling.

Hi Jim,

Your comments have confused me even more

I am now re-filling all of the hubs, diffs and gearbox with transmission oil. The 4 hubs and the front diff went fine, and on my 1962 "Pre-Series" Haflinger there is no filler / drain point on the central tube at all. But the rear diff / gearbox is confusing me. Might I seek some clarification / reality check?

• 1. On the vertical side faces of the gearbox are two filler plugs - I presume that I am right to fill these until the oil starts to flow out? (But why are there 2 filler holes instead of just one???)
  2. On the selector tower there is a Plug at the bottom (#77) and a Drain Plug on the rear vertical surface (#80). It is this one that you say is not a filler plug - therefore am I right to presume that when filling the rear diff and gearbox the only two holes that should be open are the two on the side of the gearbox?

To add to my confusion, I now see that there is yet another "Drain Plug" (#75), but this is almost at the top of the gearbox, so can't see how it could possibly "drain" anything !!!

I am also failing to understand how the central tube is lubricated on my Haf; there is no filler / drain hole on it at all, and yet when I removed the tube from the two diffs I couldn't actually see whether (or if) any oil flows into it from either the front diff or rear diff ...

Sorry if I'm being a bit dim here, but I really don't want all of the hard work that I am doing with my restoration going up in smoke due to a seized transmission ...

Many thanks,

Julian

[heinkeljb]

Julian,

Looks like nobody who visits knows!

I'll make a stab at it for you:

2: Items 77 & 80 from what I can see in the parts book and what has been said are really there as "access" points to items in the gear selector tower. So I don't think you use them as drain / fill points.

1: My "Operating Instructions book" says the gearbox / Differential filler is the one painted RED in Gary's picture above. The fact there are two suggests that one might get obscured by something (PTO?). Any way, fill on level ground until oil just start coming over lip.

Item 75 may be labelled as a "Drain plug" but from it's position, it must just be another "access" point.

Like you I am completely stumped by the central torque tube not having even a single hole for filling / drain. Everything thing else on the vehicles that has oil put into it has a fill and a drain hole. My 1973 LBW has just a fill hole and it seems you have to "suck" the old oil out - It makes NO sense to have the "workshop" people use both systems for doing a service!

When you took the central torque tube of, did you see a bearing in it or is it just a hollow tube? If it has a bearing in it, then it will need some lubrication unless it is a "sealed" bearing. If it is just a hollow tube then it probably does not need any oil in it if the central shaft uses the bearings in the diffs (presumably with oil seals on shafts?)

Maybe you should have a Fill / Drain hole fitted to be on the safe side?

TO ANYBODY ELSE WHO HAS AN EARLY HAFLINGER!

Can you go look at your torque tube and see if you have a Fill / Drain plug please? (and post a reply!)

Many thanks......

John

[Julian B]

John,

Thanks for all of that, and I agree that what you says makes total sense. I will do up all "plugs" on the rear diff except for one on the vertical side wall of the gearbox and use that as a fill hole. With regards to my central tube, when separated from the two diffs each end had a sort-of bearing in it, and you certainly couldn't "look down the tube". Very little (if any) oil came out of it, but this may well have been because it had drained out through the two diff drains before I took it apart. I can only imagine that it is a sealed unit - not a very satisfying concept on a 51 year old tube full of mechanicals and bearings!!!

Cheers,

Julian

[pathfinder700ap]

Hi everyone,

it seems to me that with early Haflingers like this one (I'd by the way not call it a "pre-series" any more, but rather an "early series 1", see also Haflinger Yahoo Group discussion around 2012-07-18) the central tube has no third, intermediate bearing like on younger versions. The two bearings are located in the front and rear covers of the central tube. The covers also contain radial shaft seal rings which prevent oil from flowing from the gearbox or from the front diff into the central tube. Since there is no third bearing inside the tube, there is also no oil needed there.

Picture from the spares catalogue 1960:



Section view front axle:



Section view gearbox:




Kind regards,
Constantin

[heinkeljb]

Thanks Constantin,

Make sense now that on a short wheel base version, there would be not reason for a bearing in the middle of the shaft. So as long as the two seals on the insides of the bearing at either end are good and doing their job(s). Then no oil should migrate from either Differential / gearbox into the tube. I wonder if it would be a good idea when putting things together to put a small amount of oil into the tube between the bearings to keep the inside coated with oil and prevent corrosion?


John

[Julian B]

Thanks Constantin - your post makes things much more clear for me ... and I can now relax

[pathfinder700ap]

John,

younger SWB Haflingers definitely have a third bearing in the middle.
And yes, I guess if one has access to the inside of the central tube, it would certainly make sense to have a look and make sure that there is everything OK there. I have currently a disassembled central tube on my workbench and I think I will put a film of grease on the surface of the long shaft to prevent corrosion.

Kind regards,
Constantin