Drive Train Bits and Pieces

Post Reply
User avatar
AustHaflinger
Posts: 2465
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:27 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Drive Train Bits and Pieces

Post by AustHaflinger »

Excuse what might be basic questions - also a couple of issues in the one thread.

I appreciate the gearbox and rear diff is in one basic housing but are they separated inside? If not separated inside why the dual drain plugs and the two filler plugs. On filling the gearbox/diff unit today I noticed the passenger side (RHD) filler is a little lower than the driver side as I was filling via the drivers side and the oil ran out the passenger side and when the filler plug on that side went back in another couple of hundred ml went in before it came out that filler whole.

As I have mentioned previously I have a growlie front end and I am not sure where it is coming from - as far as I can tell it could be coming from a bearing in the hubs, one of the CVs, diff bearings or the front bearings of the drive shaft in the chassis tube (I under stand it is turning all the time when moving irrespective of whether 4wd is engaged). Any other options??

The noise is obvious from as soon as you move, is loud but does not seem to get louder with speed - infact at 75kph it cannot be heard over all the other noises.

To check if it is the front bearings in the chassis tube I intend to jack the back off the ground and run in gear (making sure the front wheels will not turn) and see if the noise it there.

Next I will also jack the whole car off the ground and with it is gear running will lock one front wheel at a time and see which side is making the sound (or if both sides make the sound pointing to diff bearings).

I am open to suggestions on further testing or suggestions on common faults that might be causing this noise.

Note - if I just turn each of the front wheels in turn by hand the noise is not obvious and there is no roughness felt in the motion.

Thanks

Oh - my big offroad test last week showed up a number of oil leaks from the swing arms - it turned out that most of the leaks were in fact from the new split boots on the diff ends - I did not use sealant on them and I should have done as the clamps do not tighten them enough but also the center two bolt heads pull through the rubber so the split in the boots open up. Yesterday I took the rear boots back out - I used sealant on the housings and the surface of the boot's joining surface and along the split - I also installed small washers on the inner two bolts and nuts that secure the split - I let the lot cure for 24 hours and went for a drive today - all OK with just small leaks from the fulcrum. So the lesson is to use sealant on your boots and use little washers on the centre nuts and bolts.

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
User avatar
heinkeljb
Posts: 2754
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK

Re: Drive Train Bits and Pieces

Post by heinkeljb »

Gary,

I think you are going about trying to find the offending bearing the right way, Only other way would be to get it on a rolling road system like they use for testing brakes and then with a stethoscope / long screwdriver put it on various bits of the undercarriage till you find the noise.

I have not had your problem with the split universal joint boots. Just made sure the surfaces were clean. Made sure the split was facing the direction of travel and did all the little nuts and bolts up slightly more than finger tight.

Actually, I would be very surprised if your Haflinger was totally oil tight! My Smart car was oil tight until it was dismantled to repair the standard issue of oil control rings gumming up - since then it has leaked (not lots but enough to show it's leaking!)

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

Have you hit the "DONATE" button at the bottom of the page after reading this post? Many thanks if you have!!
User avatar
AustHaflinger
Posts: 2465
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:27 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Drive Train Bits and Pieces

Post by AustHaflinger »

When I refilled the gearbox I also put in some engine stop leak (is for gearboxes to). Seemed to have rejuvenated the rear fulcrum oil seals/o rings as leaks have stopped. I will put the same stuff in the front and see what happens.

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
User avatar
AustHaflinger
Posts: 2465
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:27 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Drive Train Bits and Pieces

Post by AustHaflinger »

garrycol wrote:As I have mentioned previously I have a growlie front end and I am not sure where it is coming from - as far as I can tell it could be coming from a bearing in the hubs, one of the CVs, diff bearings or the front bearings of the drive shaft in the chassis tube (I under stand it is turning all the time when moving irrespective of whether 4wd is engaged). Any other options??

The noise is obvious from as soon as you move, is loud but does not seem to get louder with speed - infact at 75kph it cannot be heard over all the other noises.

To check if it is the front bearings in the chassis tube I intend to jack the back off the ground and run in gear (making sure the front wheels will not turn) and see if the noise it there.

Next I will also jack the whole car off the ground and with it is gear running will lock one front wheel at a time and see which side is making the sound (or if both sides make the sound pointing to diff bearings).

Garry
Now covered almost 1000kms and this noise in the front end is unchanged - not getting worse, not getting better - is definitely bearing so must just be a minor issue that makes noise but not necessarily wear but something that needs sorting.

I jacked up the Haffie off the ground and no noise when running in 2wd 2nd and 3rd but I do have some binding rear brakes that will need adjusting. Turning the front wheels by hand there is no noise at all - just the noise of the gears meshing in the hubs and CVs (noting that jacked up they are operating at max angle) but nothing unusual. With engine running in 2nd, engage 4wd then you can hear the noise so my conclusion is that the bearings that the centre drive shaft sits in are the culprits (or the front diff pinion bearing)- I have noticed that general noises that I know are made in the rear like dodgy clutch bearings can be heard at the front so it is not clear whether it is front or rear drive shaft bearings.

One question I have and asked previously - the centre tube only has a filler and no drain plug - so how do you know if there is enough oil in there? When I was put my Haffie back on the road I just put another 500ml in there to be sure but I have no idea what the quality of the oil was like that was already in there - who knows the tube could be half full of water.

As this bearing noise is stable at the moment I will wait until the current registration period runs out in October and I will then pull the front diff and center tube out and look for dodgy bearings.

Happy to receive any comments or suggestions.

Cheers

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
User avatar
heinkeljb
Posts: 2754
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK

Re: Drive Train Bits and Pieces

Post by heinkeljb »

Garry,

If you put axle stands under the shock absorber mountings on the drive shafts, the weight of the Hafi will be back where it is when the wheels are on the road as far as the angles of the drive shafts are concerned.

With all four wheels off the ground, see if it is stable enough to start the engine, put it in gear and let it idle whilst all for wheels are turning. You can then do your diagnostic system of stopping individual wheels to see if that changes the noise.

Whilst doing that, either use a proper diagnostic stethoscope, or a long rod to put against your ear and various parts of the drive train. You should hear LOTS through that, but you should also be able to tell where it is louder compared to other places.

Hope you find the culprit.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

Have you hit the "DONATE" button at the bottom of the page after reading this post? Many thanks if you have!!
HaffyHunter
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:12 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Drive Train Bits and Pieces

Post by HaffyHunter »

With engine running in 2nd, engage 4wd then you can hear the noise so my conclusion is that the bearings that the centre drive shaft sits in are the culprits
Hi Garry,
I don't think your bearing noise can be originating in the centre shaft bearings. This shaft is in constant rotation regardless of whether your Haffy is in 2WD or 4WD so the noise would be present regardless of operational mode. Look to your front diff for the problem.
Cheers,
Steve
User avatar
AustHaflinger
Posts: 2465
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:27 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: Drive Train Bits and Pieces

Post by AustHaflinger »

Thanks John for those comments - I have the jack stands about half way along the swing arms as the pyramid shape of the stands need to clear the wheels - so while the wheels do not hang right down the CVs are still operating at a steep angle. I don't have a stethoscope so a long screw driver will have to do. Car runs Ok on the stands.

Steve - you are quite right of course concerning the centre shaft - is turning all the time and if this was the culprit would be noisy in 2wd when off the ground (the :idea: came on soon after I put my post up). So it looks like the front diff will have to come out. That would make sense as when I bought the Haffie the oil seal in the outer end of the right hand swing arm had failed and the diff oil could be emptied in a few km driving so I suspect the previous owner allowed this to happen and some minor damage to bearings has resulted. (not one of the better design aspects).

Not looking forward to having to pull the diff out.

Garry
Haflinger 700AP (73)
Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
Landrover Series 1 SWB (57)
Jaguar E-type Roadster V12 (71)
Jaguar XJ12C (76)
User avatar
heinkeljb
Posts: 2754
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:49 pm
Location: Lewes, East Sussex - UK

Re: Drive Train Bits and Pieces

Post by heinkeljb »

When you finally decide to pull it apart, see if you can rope some one in to stand around taking pictures! Oily hands mean you rarely do so if you are doing a job by your self.

Have you tried getting on the back or putting some weight on there? If you jack the Hafi up, the wheel track shortens and only goes back out again when you drive. So you need to force it to move on the axle stands or else put it on stands without jacking it up.

Have 4 wheel ramps, drive it up on to those, jack just enough to remove the wheel ramps and replace with axle stands.

Or just thought - use a ratchet strap on the hub to platform and lessen the angle that way.

John
Haflinger 703AP LWB 1973 - (Once owned by Lady Sutherland & Sons.) Now called "Lurch" !

Have you hit the "DONATE" button at the bottom of the page after reading this post? Many thanks if you have!!
Post Reply