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 Post subject: Replacement regulators
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Following on from My trip to Holland in Lurch and the small issue of the battery not charging correctly, I have been doing some research and finding a fix that works.

It appears that there are at least 2 different Dynastarts fitted to Haflingers:-

Bosch LA / EJ160 / 12 /3000
and
Bosch J 14V20A33

which boils down to the fact that the first one can "supply" a nominal 160 watts at 12 volts = 13 amps. The second one (as fitted to Lurch) is rated 20amps at 14volts which is about 17amps at 12volts.

Now, the interesting bit which concerns all people who run Dynastarts / Dynamos is that these figures are for a COLD unit. The real world values DROP as the unit warms up. So you end up with with real world values of about 11amps from the first variation and about 15amps from the second variation.

This has meant that I have had to replace as many of my original lights with LED equivalents. These changes along with my HID conversion means I am below the 15amp draw when I have ignition, parking lights (including number plate lights and panel dials), main lights (even on high beam), windscreen wiper) - the other lights like brake lights are also LEDs, but as they are on for relatively short periods of time like the indicators, they can be discounted.

The only problem was that my Bosch mechanical regulator couldn't provide this consistently - it kept alternating between charging and discharging. I assume this was due to it getting hot or the contacts not passing current properly.

So my fix has been to junk the mechanical regulator and go for an electronic one. I have found a place which makes one small enough even with it's heat sink to fit INSIDE the original Bosch regulator box. I had another dead regulator where all the internals where too corroded to be salvaged. Removed all those bits, wired the electronic regulator wires to the appropriate places on the base of the case. As it is a Bosch regulator box, all the existing wiring fits exactly the same. Other than having to make a wire hoop to hold the lid on the same way the outer cover is held on, you wouldn't know it has an electronic regulator. It works really well, it will show the ~ 15amp discharge at idle if you turn everything on, then as the revs rise, the needle returns to 0 and goes very slightly into the positive and it remains like that - no variations in the charge current. It might only be a trickle charge at that point, but as it is not an overall discharge, there should be no more flat batteries!

Sorry about the long post, but it might help someone, and no, I am not associated with the place that makes the electronic regulator and does dynastart refurbishments as well.

John

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:12 pm 
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John

Oh do tell who!

Sounds to me like you have been on this for a while and may have come up with a cracking upgrade

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:58 pm 
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This place:-

http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/

For most people who own a Haflinger, if their Dynastart is in working condition, all they will need is the electronic regulator. There are several ways to do things.

You can just take off the old regulator, re-do the wiring to join it to the new electronic regulator, produce a mounting bracket and your done.
You can send them a mechanical regulator and they will send you it back with an electronic regulator fitted inside it.
Or, you can get their electronic regulator and gut a mechanical one yourself and fit the bits together.

Yes, they are quite expensive but they do work.

John

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:44 am 
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John I do not have the issue that you describe - I can tell from my voltage gauge that when the charging light is off, my voltage reading is 14v even with lights etc on. When idling when the charging light comes on my gauge shows 13v - the voltage in my battery.

I think the issue is the condition of the regulator rather than its type - mine is relatively new.

I do agree though that an electronic unit is less likely to play up.

The other means of helping to overcome the level of available charge (at least in the short term) is to use a larger battery. I have a full size large car battery and it easily starts the Haffie even when nearly flat - it has a large Ah capacity so with everything on in the car takes a while to drain - the downside then is that it takes a while to charge when running around during the day.

Garry

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:27 am 
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John

Have you thought about a solar panel on the roof that continuously trickles the battery in daylight hours

Maplins do one for under £20

I had one on my Landrover and it always maintained the battery

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:26 am 
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StuartR wrote:
John

Have you thought about a solar panel on the roof that continuously trickles the battery in daylight hours



On my post above I did actually type an additional paragraph - saying I could mount my 120w solar panels top the roof and wire them into the battery so when driving or parked the battery gets a lot of extra watts - but I deleted it. :)

Garry

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:01 pm 
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Hi Gary, Stuart,

Solar panel is no help at night! The solar panel is so small that's its output might just cover the internal resistance drain on a good sunny day here. It certainly won't replenish the battery if it has been drained more than 5 - 10%. (Maplin one's output is at best 125 /135 milliamps) So I went looking for reasons, as the original charging system on paper at least, is capable of covering the drain caused by the various "standard" electrical items.
Lurch as you know is not standard as far as the electrical system goes, HID's, Some LEDs I could use as running lights. LEDs to light the rear bed during the long winter evenings. Charging for my Smart phone / Sat Nav.

So as I did more real world checks on the current drain with selected things on, it became apparent that my regulator was not doing it's job efficiently. There have been various posts regarding replacement regulator which boil down to the fact that they have been discontinued and so are now difficult and expensive to find.

My electronic regulator although expensive is easy to get hold of and is actually more efficient, with better power miss-connection protection (see military regulator burn out thread). I also discovered that what I thought was a power output I could base my current consumption on was flawed. What apparently was 240 Watts output, is only available when the dynastart is cold and for most of its "active" life it is going to be HOT, so the real world figure should be nearer 200 Watts.

So during the day, the charging rate is fine, it was at night in the rain when it used to slowly drain the battery. Now it does not. This means I no longer have to think about using Lurch during our long cold, wet winter evenings / nights. My HID's make night time driving viable as I can see where I am going and others can see me.

I did think about buying a small alternator and disconnecting the dynamo part of the Dynastart so I still had a starter and using the alternator to charge the battery. Fair amount of work to do that compared to replacing the regulator.

John

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Last edited by heinkeljb on Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:05 pm 
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Most common charging fault is dirty ground cable connection at the body, followed by weak battery/sulfated cells.
On the LEd's be cautious as the turn signal relay (flasher)must have proper load(amperage draw) to work.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:38 pm 
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Not the common faults in my case.
Led bulbs in indicators call for either a load resistor to be wired in as already stated, or the use of a flasher unit designed to run LED's. They can actually be left alone as they and the brake lights are on for a small proportion of the time you are driving. I replaced the rear brakes lights, the rear parking (position) lights, the number (license) plate lights, the front parking (position) lights, the fuel gauge illumination light, the speedometer illumination light, the main (high) beam indicator light, and the indicator (turn signal) indication light with LED's

I left the generator indication light as standard, as the Dynastart requires the current flow through it to start the magnetic field in the Dynastart.

John

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:06 am 
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For typical Haffie use I think that if the charging rate is sorted the charging system will suffice subject to you have a big enough battery.

Driving during the day not an issue as even the up to 20amps from the generator will put in a lot of charge. At night the generator should just match the load (I have 55/50w halogens) and I have calculated that on hi beam my theoretical usage is just under the generator output. This will mean the battery capacity should remain the same - even if load is higher than charge a large battery will cope - my battery has a capacity of about 75ah so will last for hours and hours before it gets too low. I don't think that there are too many haffies that run all night - night after night.

Here is the estimation of my Haffie with everything on - extras like wipers and horn etc would have to come from battery capacity. If I go to 35w HIDs and rear LEDs then further savings can be made - but then I am wanting to put on LED driving lights that use about 20w each and then there is the relay.

Lights (hi beam) 60w x 2 = 120w
Front Parkers (led) 5w x2 = 10w
Dash Lights 5wx2 = 10w
Number Plate Light 10w = 10w
Tail Lights 10w x 2 = 20w
Engine Systems ?? 50w = 50w (assumption)
GPS 2w = 2w
Total 222w

Dynastart max delivery 240w

So the standard generator can manage it - just but a big battery to take the load on the highs and recharge on the lows makes it workable - but it does need a good regulator to keep max charge up to the battery.

Garry

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Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:41 am 
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Gary,

You are right about there not being many Haflingers that run at night, mostly I suspect because the lights are not very bright and then because they have charging issues. On the trip to Holland out of 20 odd Haflingers, at least 3 had charging issues.

My point is that, the Dynastart theoretically can supply 240 Watts, in practice can't. When it gets hot, the output capability drop. Demanding the same output when it is warm can damage the internal wiring / brushes / commutator. In theory the extra load should be handled by the battery, but if the regulator which is supposed to limit the current doesn't for what ever reason, then you risk burning out your Dynastart.

The standard system, when in good condition is perfectly capable of doing what it was designed to do. My solution corrected a system which was not in good condition.

John

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:56 am 
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I must admit that I didn't know that generators reduced power output when they get hot - not heard that before.

I think you wont have any issues once the regulator is sorted.

Cheers

Garry

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Range Rover Sport TDV6 (07)
Landrover FC 101 (77)
Landrover Series 1 SWB Station Wagon (57)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:07 pm 
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I hope so too - buy them is not cheap, either mechanical or electronic.
Only time will tell., So far so good!

John

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