She No Go

[AustHaflinger]

Well after fixing the charging issues I had I went for a long drive yesterday and confirmed I was getting full charge to the battery - all great

I parked up in the garage yesterday and this afternoon went to move the Haf out so I could do some cleaning up in the garage - she no go - no life at all. Turns over fine but no firing even with a bit of "Start Ya Barstard" starting fluid.

Hmmm - pull the drivers side spark plug - no spark Same for passenger side spark plug - no spark, both wet and a bit black - cleaned up and still no go - put the timing light on the lead and no life at all.

Some time back I changed the points out and put a Pertronix electronic ignition in so this is the obvious culprit (well maybe). so I pull that out and out the old points back in and no difference - no spark.

I disconnect the coil from the dizzy and put a spark plug in the high tension lead and fire up the coil manually with a 12v battery I have - making and breaking the low tension side of the coil still does not fire the spark plug. I took the plug out and just short the HT lead and I get a little spark. Putting the timing light on the HT lead and the timing light lights up intermittantly but not consistently.

Strange - one day the car is running fine and the next she no go.

I will leave the points in for the moment but get a new coil (it maybe weak), new spark plugs and some leads but I am at a loss as to why ignition just stops like that with no warning.

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Sounds like your coil has overheated and shorted out some windings. Leaving the ignition switched on will do this. Usual symptom is very hot coil!

The problem is that engines tend to stop in exactly the same place - compression on one cylinder being the reason for stopping, but then backing up a bit on the rebound. If you are unlucky, this “point” is with the points closed and therefore allowing current to flow through the coil. I am not sure how the electronic ignition system deal with this particular issue, but if they allow current to flow when engine is stationary, then you either burn out the electronic ignition or the coil.

Gary, I am sure a new coil will solve your problem.

John

[Julian B]

Sounds like your coil has overheated and shorted out some windings. Leaving the ignition switched on will do this. Usual symptom is very hot coil!

This happened to me a couple of years ago when John popped up to see me. I inadvertently left the ignition on and cooked the coil

[AustHaflinger]

Maybe but the ignition had not been on since I had parked the car in the garage and trying to start it the next day. I have 5 different coils lying around and have been testing them off the car - basically making and breaking the low tension side on a battery with the body of the coils earthed to the negative side of the battery - there is no spark being generated so i am a bit stumped - obviously doing something wrong.

Something to ponder this week.

[heinkeljb]

Gary, are you actually getting power to the coil
When you put the ignition on? Maybe you have a faulty switch? To check a coil off the vehicle:-

Connect -ve side of low tension of the coil to the body of the coil and to the negative side of the battery.
Then get the central high tension cable to suitable gap distance from the body of the coil.
Now use a wire from the +ve side of the battery and brush / tap connect to the +ve low tension side of the coil .

That should give you a spark across the gap of the high tension cable and the body of the coil.

Some coils require you to have a resistor in the circuit in order to work.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Hi John - yes I have checked that there is power to the coil so the switch etc is OK.

I am basically following the procedure you outlined with the coil off the car, also tested the other coils I have all with no luck. I will do some more checking tomorrow and get some new leads and plugs first, if no luck then a new coil.

I have found what the resistance is supposed to be on the LT and HT sides of the coil so will test that with the multimeter as well.

All confusing but I will work through it all.

Cheers

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

As I now have the points back in maybe I should go back to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dZghmByvHU

[AustHaflinger]

Well made some progress today - keep in mind the video in my previous post

Well double checked power - all good. Put a lead light in the circuit and it switched on and off as the points opened and closed - so points working, and LT on the coil working. Oh - it was mentioned about points burning when ignition stays on - well 8 out of 10 stops when I had the lead light on, showed the engine stopping with the points closed.

So time to look further - so on the assumption that the coil was OK I decided to look at the dissy cap - all good including the carbon brush. Rotor arm looked ok but there was a bit of grease on the centre contact and the end contact needed cleaning - all done and for no particular reason put the ohm meter on the rotor arm - no circuit so while I may have other issues, the first ignition stopper is no HT current getting through the rotor arm.

I ended at a parts supplier (for the Aussies - Repco) who found something that looked right in the parts book but was too hard to confirm - pulling up a pic on the computer it looked about right Bosch Part BH95, so when it arrived tomorrow we will find out.

Back home my curiosity got the better of me, if I didn't have a rotor arm I could replicate the video and see if the engine ran - so out with the Bosch GT40 Coil in with the near new wasted spark coil (both HT contacts fire at the same time so both cylinder fire at the same time - hence the term wasted spark) that I had in my parts bin. Connected each spark plug direct to the coil, but the crank at TDC, put the lead light back in the circuit and then turned the dizzy until the lead light came on indicating the points just opened and timing is approx right.

Went and hit the starter and she fired up just like the video - no rotor and no dizzy cap on. Timing was a little out as but I was able to adjust but idle is over the place so timing is a bit hit and miss but seems in the ballpark.

I might leave it like this with the dizzy cap back on as a dust cover. Less things to go wrong, and is a simpler arrangement. Though I have to stay with points as the wasted spark coil has the wrong resistance for the Pertronix and will burn it out.

So not sure if the Bosch GT 40 Coil is Ok or not but it tests OK on the multimeter, but the rotor arm was definitely cactus.

Garry

The rotor arm

[AustHaflinger]

Bosch BH95 looks a little different than the original, and the internal moulding where it fits over the dizzy shaft looks a little different but where it counts all is the same and it works.

Changed this back to as they were - old coil etc and all works and stable 800rpm idle with 6 degrees BTDC. I got a new coil but will not need it so goes in to the spares box.

So the issue I had was the rotor arm so file away in your records if you dont have it Bosch BH95.

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

Went for a test drive - all ok and other engine performance issues I previously had have also gone - so the rotor arm was breaking down for a while, particularly under load.

garry

[heinkeljb]

Well done Gary!

You wouldn’t think a Rotor arm would break down , after all it is onl a piece of plastic and a piece of metal.

So perseverance is the key...

John

[AustHaflinger]

You wouldn’t think a Rotor arm would break down , after all it is onl a piece of plastic and a piece of metal.

Thanks John,

You would think so but I have experience in this area so that is probably what prompted me check it. I used to own a Discovery 1 3.9 V8 that I had from new. I had it serviced and tuned up which included the rotor arm being replaced which and aftermarket item (not my choice) - about 3 months later it failed when I was on a trip and I found that Lucas is the only one for this engine as for some reason all other rotors would fail after 3 months - which it did on queue.

Cheers

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

Well she no go again - this is getting ridiculous.

I suspect it is ignition again but I just do not have the energy to deal with it.

I think it is time to just park it up in the back yard, take the battery out and put it under a cover and come back to it in late spring.

[heinkeljb]

Always better to park it up working than non-working!

You'll look at it and say "it's dead, I can't be bothered to try and find out what's wrong, it can just wait for another day"!!

If it was working, then, it will be "Was working when I parked it up, can't be much wrong... let's get it going"!!

Are you running the electronic ignition at the moment? Maybe that has a faulty joint or something?

John

[AustHaflinger]

As you can imagine, my frustration is getting to me as the engine was running fine after my recent distributor rotor issue.

So after deciding to lay the vehicle up for a while - reality set in - haflinger in garage, but I need the garage, but the haflinger not running so how to get it out and around to the back yard? Yes doable but a lot of work.

So curiosity got the better of me - hmm no spark as the plugs are carboned up. Clean up and one still has no spark and the other is sparking occasionally but is also sparking deep down in the plug indicating the insulator has small cracks it.

So a new set of plugs and she fired up OK - hmm so two dead spark plugs - I wonder what would cause that? I wonder how long things will last now before it plays up again.

I went back to points but if this stays OK for a while, I will put the pertronix module back in.

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

Starts first go but as before when you get to about 3500rpm under load it just dies - in all gears. This is normally a sign of ignition breaking down.

So back to first principles - start all over again. I have ordered a gasket kit for the carb (the carb is leaking a little and running a bit rich) so I will clean out the carb again and put that kit in and set it back up. Recheck the tappets, put in the new coil I have, get a new HT lead (I have new others), get a new condensor, clean the points and then see what happens.

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Can you do a compression test whilst you are at it? Have you tried running it with the choke on / off as it stands at present? Lurch can be bit temperamental with apparent lack of power until you pull out the choke. Then runs normally for a while. Then you have put the choke back in to get rid of the running rich issues. So presumably Lurch was still feeling cold and then when warm / hot will run without the choke.
Obviously some times when this happens it must be down to a bit of dirt in the carb jets as things were working well beforehand.

Might be worth just taking the jets out and blowing the clean. I have a can of compressed air that you use for cleaning computers that I use for blowing jets clear.... Not a good idea to stick bits of wire etc down the holes as brass is quite soft and it is easy to put a scratch in.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks John - when cold and in winter, which it is here now, my engine requires full choke to start then runs really rough or not at all until the choke is pushed in - when warm it will run on partial choke but not on full. After first start it runs best with no choke at all irrespective whether hot or cold.

When I get the kit for the carb I will rebuild carefully to ensure everything that goes back nice and clean.

After I recheck the tappets I will do a compression test to ensure all is Ok there.

Cheers

Garry