Where was my Haflinger Made

[AustHaflinger]

Can anyone tell me where my 73 Haflinger was made - I believe it was made in Melbourne Australia but I would like to know for sure.

It is Chassis Number 5363063.

Thanks

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

I take it then that there is no central depositry of records and where varios vehicles were made - is there a "Registrar" as yet.

Cheers

Garry

[pathfinder700ap]

The younger Australian Haflingers were made in Graz, but then partly disassembled and sent to Melbourne as CKD (completely knocked down) kits. There was a small production site where the Haflingers saw final assembly. I have tried to document that on my website at:

http://tdc.haflinger-4wd.com/countries/australia.php

With the chassis number, you may obtain a scan of the so called "Wagenstammkarte" (that translates to something like birth certificate) for your Haflinger from MagnaSteyr. It costs about 40 Euro if I remember correctly. It contains information about the serial numbers, production date, special equipment, paint color etc.


Kind regards,
Constantin

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks Constanin - it was your website that prompted my question? I assume that my Haflinger was assembled in Melbourne but I would like to know for sure. It does not have an Australian Compliance Plate that would have been required at the time so there is also a chance it may have been made elsewhere and came into Australia at some other stage of its life.

My two old 57 Land Rovers were assembled in Sydney by the Pressed Metal Company and have relevant production plates on them and from that I have been able to trace their production and initial delivery. I was hoping for something similar for the Haflinger. It would be nice to know where the Haflinger went to when if was first sold.

Cheers

Garry

[Rick K]

Hi Garry

Im afraid there is no registry as such. My first suggestion would be to obtain the Wagenstammkarte as recommended by Constantin. Ive attached a copy for one of my beasties, obtained via Dale at Haflinger Technik. You can see who the vehicle was sold to- in this case it was Anti-Friction Bearings- which later became Haflinger Sales and Service in Springvale, Victoria. We know at the time that the Haflingers sold by them were the CKD kits, so Im on solid ground in assuming this vehicle was one of those.

As as a back-up, it seems (although not confirmed) that the tin-work on the engine was marked with a roman numeral in red paint (by hand), and it matched the same lettering on the firewall. I assume this was done in Graz, and allowed Anti-Friction Bearings/Haflinger Sales and Service to easily match the engine with the vehicle when it came time for re-assmbly. Have a look and see if yours is similarly marked. I have now seen this on 3 vehicles of the same era. Constantin has an example of that here: http://tdc.haflinger-4wd.com/countries/australia.php

I understand that there are records for all of the Haflingers imported by Anti-Friction Bearings and later Haflinger Sales and Service, but thus far I have been unsuccessful in obtaining them for the soon to be launched Haflinger Club of Australia website. Ill keep trying, as that would make a valuable resource for all Haflinger owners here.

regards

Rick

[Rick K]

Garry

Forgot to add note about compliance plates. The Australian Design Rules (ADR) came into force in May 1972, and at that time only related to seat belts and some other safety features. Subsequently some Haflingers were fitted with ADR compliance plates, and some were not. I spoke a few years ago to Mr Barry Jones to owned Haflinger Sales and Service and he said they were affixed only for certain states, or on demand. Thats why my Pathfinder Haflinger which was first sold in Tasmania in 1976 did not have a compliance plate, but other post 1972 vehicles do. This does cause a problem these days for those wishing to road register their vehicles in NSW, as the examiners look for a ADR compliance plate that is often no there.

Ive attached a photo of a compliance plate from what I believe is an ex-Telecom Haflinger.

regards

Rick

[AustHaflinger]

Thanks Rick - great information - I will the getting the data sheet.

I am surprised that compliance plates were not fitted to all Aust made Haffies from 1972 but clearly they were not. It would be great if the Aussie records, if they still exist could be located.

Cheers

Garry

PS Just checked the engine and firewall and nothing there though both have been repainted at some stage.

[pathfinder700ap]

Hi there,

one addition to Rick's post: On the Wagenstammkarte, you can see the word "zerlegt", which translates to "disassembled" and which clearly proves that this Haflinger was sent over to Australia as a kit.

Kind regards,
Constantin

[Rick K]

Thanks Constantin!

Garry, I have heard of a number of private imports into Australia. Thanks to Constantins detective work, a Haffie recently for sale in WA was identified as being an import from Africa and originally owned by a missionary. The Wagenstammkarte should provide the answer to your question with respect to origin.

Shame you cant look for evidence of the red hand-painted roman numerals. Its nice to restore vehicles, but its nice too to be able conserve those that you find in original condition. A lot of little details can be lost.

Ill keep trying to obtain those records.

regards

Rick

[AustHaflinger]

My Haffie also has a rifle mount on the passenger side - on odd option for a "normal" civilian Haffie but maybe not so odd if the vehicle was sold to a farming property.

Cheers

Garry

[AustHaflinger]

I got my Wagenstammkarte today



So as expected was provided to Haflinger Sales and Service in Melbourne in CKD form. The vehicle was supplied without tyres, windshield glass and battery as these would have been provided locally under local content rules.

I have just spend the last 90 minutes with the language translator but there are a few words that did not translate to english and some that do not make sense.

Wagenstammkarte translates to Dare Master Card - I get the general meaning but not the specific meaning.

Ubersetzung translates to translations - huh?

Sitzg.Bef.ohne.Batterie translates to something something without battery ??

Stammkarte gepruft translates to Master Card tested - ??

Ausfuhrung translates to Execution but I assume it is something like "Comments" ??

lange Bordwande, translates to Long Board something ????

ruckfahr comes out as Ruck Driving ????

Thanks for all the input.

Garry

[Julian B]

lange Bordwande, translates to Long Board something ????

Maybe Long Side Boards (as opposed to short ones for use with rear doors)?

[pathfinder700ap]

Hi Garry,

Wagenstammkarte is usually translated to "birth certificate" or similar.
Übersetzung means gear ratio and refers to the hub gear ratio. 2.38 is the result of 38/16 teeth and will give you an original high speed of 70 kph.
Sitzg. possibly means Sitzgestell (seat frame), but I don't think that this has something to do with the Battery. Not sure what the abbreviation "Bef." means. It could mean "Sitzgestelle befestigt", which would translate to "seat frames mounted", but I am not sure.
Ohne Batterie means without battery.
Stammkarte geprüft means birth certificate checked.
Ausführung means version. In this text field, there were usually extras listed.
Lange bordwände means long sides, as Julian already explained.
Rückfahrscheinwerfer means reverse light... interesting, since you are missing the switch.

Kind regards,
Constantin

[AustHaflinger]

Constantin - all interesting stuff. I thought I had the higher speed spur gears but this confirms I have the mid range gears - this highlights the stronger engine that I have in that it can pull 14" wheels and has a higher top speed of 78.3kph while remaining a couple of hundred revs below the redline of 4800rpm. I thought that all late models had the 2.21 spur gears but clearly this was not the case.

This reversing light does have me intrigued. The gearbox is the original and does not have the ability to mount the switch so maybe at some stage just the gear linkage tower was changed.

Thanks for the information.

Cheers

Garry

[Rick K]

Hi Garry

This also tells you it originally had the Zenith carby, not the Solex (if I recall was what you now have fitted).

I guess the limited ADR rules apply to your beastie then, being manufactured post May 1972.

cheers

Rick

[AustHaflinger]

Hi Garry

This also tells you it originally had the Zenith carby, not the Solex (if I recall was what you now have fitted).

I guess the limited ADR rules apply to your beastie then, being manufactured post May 1972.

cheers

Rick

Yes - originally had a Zenith but as part of the upgrade to 762cc the Solex from a NSU was fitted.

I was able to get a copy of the ADRs and if the vehicle is classed as a "commercial vehicle" which the tester considered it to be then the majority of ADRs do not apply until 1985, likewise if a passenger vehicle it is classed as a "Forward Control passenger vehicle of less that 8 seats" and the majority of ADRs do not apply until 1985.

The reversing light switch is still a bit of a mystery and all I can think of is that the selector housing on top of the gearbox has been changed at some stage as the gearbox housing is the correct one for the vehicle.

Cheers

Garry

[pathfinder700ap]

Garry,

you can do a very quick check on your vehicle by looking at the wheel hub flanges. In the center point of the rims, the wheel hub flange can be seen and there should be a number stamped into the flange, in your case it will possibly be a "16". That means that a small gearwheel with 16 teeth was fitted originally. Of course, it is not 100% sure if the gearwheels inside where changed at some stage.

Kind regards,
Constantin

[AustHaflinger]

Garry,

you can do a very quick check on your vehicle by looking at the wheel hub flanges. In the center point of the rims, the wheel hub flange can be seen and there should be a number stamped into the flange, in your case it will possibly be a "16". That means that a small gearwheel with 16 teeth was fitted originally. Of course, it is not 100% sure if the gearwheels inside where changed at some stage.

Kind regards,
Constantin

When I recently had the front right hub apart I counted the teeth 16/38 and even wrote it down on my white tool board but did not actually do the math until today after your comments above. If I wanted to use the Haffie over longer distances on the highway or use 12" wheels then it might be worth changing but given the poor higher speed dynamics and my intended offroad and local use I don't think there is any need to change the ratios.

Cheers

Garry