Modified Pathfinder on eBay

[walderse]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-Ste ... 1768418926

Almost posted this in the Modifications section. Interesting alternate power plant. If someone on this forum dose take the plunge on this one, I would be very interested to see inside that engine bay.

Take care.

Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
Sheridan, Oregon
http://www.northwestmogfest.com

[AustHaflinger]

What be the advantage of the engine it has fitted over a well tuned Haffie engine? Certainly if it does not have a higher cruise rev range certainly top end performance will not be improved.

Garry

[heinkeljb]

Seller really should have taken a photo of the engine bay with the engine in it as he makes the case that the engine bay has not been cut about to the point that it would make putting the original type engine back in.
No mention of the hub speeds so we have no idea if the engine can rev high enough to be comparable with the original engine.
Maybe someone could "ask the seller" the question? Not in a position to do that just at the moment.

John

[kerry460]

the V twin could most likely rev high enough .
possible that he purchased it without a motor .
from what i can see , a neater conversion than any i have ever seen .
appears to have not lost ground clearance ,
possibly lost a bit of departure angle

kerry

[AustHaflinger]

Looking online at that engine - unmodified it is a 999cc engine so much bigger than the Haffie and produces 35hp vs 27 (later Haffies).

However the Haffie engine is producing it power at 4800rpm where the V twin is producing it at around 3200rpm. This indicates to me that with standard Haffie gearing the V twin would run out of revs well before a Haffies top speed but would pull much better in the gears - but would still run out of rev range well before the Haffie in each gear.

At the moment I find the gap between 4th and 5th too great as when I am going up steep hills I need to change down from 5th to 4th at about 55 kph but 4th is only good for about 45-50kph at 4800rpm so I tend to hang on in the higher gear. The V twin would hang on a lot better at a lower speed but because of its lower rev range when you did have to change down to 4th you would be stuck at a much lower speed.

This highlights that if you do want to change engines you need one that will rev for extended periods above 5000rpm to make the swap worthwhile. Now if you want to drive slow and pull weights then this engine may be better.

It is a lawn mower/stationary engine not a small car/bike engine.

Garry

[walderse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC8yYTXoZm4

Done correctly, I do not think the current crop of V-twin motors (both gasoline and diesel) would have no difficulty matching the performance of the standard S-P power plant.

In the setting of an engine-less truck and the cost of finding an original motor even in poor condition, I believe these could represent a viable alternative.

Take care.
Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com

[jhon]

Very interesting! Does anyone have any details of how the engine is cooled? - i.e. assuming purely air-cooled does it come complete with all the necessary shrouding to keep it cool in stationary/low-speed use?

I'm (mostly) happy with my standard power-plant, but it would be nice to know and dream of viable alternatives (that might produce more power!) if I ever had to change.

One of these youtube videos showed a modified version revving to 12000rpm! With standard gearing that should take the Haf to over 90mph - what a scary thought!

[heinkeljb]

If they have done nothing to the V-twin engine other than make a mounting ring. Then the sump on the V-twin is much lower than the S-P original engine so you would definitely lose ground clearance under the rear sump guard.

If you could reduce the depth of the sump on that YouTube version which rev'd to 11,000 and have a remote oil tank, then it would be a good candidate for an engine swap as you could put a rev limiter on it at 6,000 ~ 6,500 which would give a usable increase in top speed and would allow sufficient power going by the HP meter shown.

Still you don't know what was changed in that V-twin to make rev like that - probably several thousands in after market parts!

Would be nice to know more about both items!

John

[walderse]

These new V twins do not have a very deep sump. Going on-line, I arbitrarily picked a set for drawing for a Kohler horizontal crankshaft V-twin.

https://www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengi ... awings.jpg

with more detail being found here:

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecata ... er=Command PRO CH980

I am not near any of my Haflingers at present so am unable to readily measure the distance from shaft center line to bottom of the sump of the Haflinger motor. The distance on the Kohler is 6.125". If anyone has that measurement handy, please chime in.

Take care.
Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com

[AustHaflinger]

Dont be confused by the engine in Jim's Youtube vid - it is nothing like the lawn mower engine in the Haflinger that is for sale. The engine comes with all shrouding etc so that it can bolt straight into a lawn mower chassis or any piece of equipment that needs a stationary engine.

In my Haflinger I cruise at 70kph and 4000rpm (3500rpm equates to 65kph). With the 35hp Kohler V twin engine fitted which as far as I can tell has a redline of around 3500rpm (max power at about 3250) means even with the extra power I would only cruise at about 3000rpm so 60kph. For sure I can tow a lot better and get quicker through the gears but I would constantly be running out of revs.

With the Haf, other than Hub gears, gearing cannot be changed so for normal use I do not see much in the way of advantage, However if you had no Haf engine and wanted something cheap and were not worried about originality then why not - I did see a new Kohler V twin engine listed on Ebay for as low as $1800 US so a cost effective alternative.

But if you were to reengine then a Mazda rotary which is small and very high revving would be a better alternative (if its combustion changer seals hold up) or maybe a motor bike V twin which has the revs but installation would be harder.

An interesting conversation that highlights how well the Haf engine is suited to the vehicle and how effective (or lack of it) some engine changes are - because you cannot adjust the gearing to take advantages of a different engine.

Garry

[jhon]

An interesting conversation that highlights how well the Haf engine is suited to the vehicle and how effective (or lack of it) some engine changes are - because you cannot adjust the gearing to take advantages of a different engine.

Garry

Yes Garry, I agree that unless a replacement engine revs to at least the same as the Haflinger unit it will limit the vehicle.

The literature that I've found on the standard Kohler engine (so far) seems to confirm that the upper rev range is below 3500rpm, so that is a downside as a potential replacement.

From the youtube videos it seems possible to make them rev and produce ample power - I'd like to know the costs and effort in making a stock engine do that!

We have a zero-turn mower that has one of these v-twin engines fitted - I took a fresh look of interest at it last night - size wise it looks like it might fit. However, the devil is in the details - e.g. does the crankshaft have a flange suitable for a flywheel/clutch? etc.

Oh well - more research required - always interesting to consider options.

[AustHaflinger]

Just replace the governor on the Haffie engine with supercharger and put in a twin turbo - too easy

[heinkeljb]

I am currently looking at putting a turbocharger on with fuel injection so we'll see where that get to!

John

[walderse]

Speaking of superchargers on Haflingers, one of those is believed to be the critical piece of equipment that allowed the 1961 Atacama Expedition to set the automotive altitude record.

As far as turbochargers go, this in an interesting little clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x4gZrXxc-o

There is no doubt that installing a V-twin(gasoline or diesel) would not be an inexpensive process. I know of someone who recently spent $5000USD having an original Haflinger motor rebuilt and upgraded to include 823cc displacement.

Currently, there is a very healthy aftermarket performance "community" for the V-twins and the sky is the limit both in performance and the amount of money being spent to achieve it. A motor sold as being governed at 3,600rpm is not required to live out its life below that rpm if its operation chooses to go beyond its governed limit. There are a number of ungoverned Haflinger motors that do just fine with an observant operator.

I currently have ZERO plans to purchase one of the V-twins as I have spare original motors as back-ups. In the future, we may build up one of our spare chassis as a test platform with an alternative power source (electric, gasoline or diesel).

Take care.

Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com

[walderse]

I had the good fortune to make contact with the current owner of the truck featured in the eBay auction. He has two very interested parties and will likely sell the truck within the next few days. The motor he chose to use produces 35hp SAE with the governor modified to intervene above 4000rpm. By modifying the counterweights of the governor, the engine speed limit quite simply. Reaching the magic 4,800rpm (and above) is quite easily reached. His motor was built under the direction of a professional lawn mower racer (yes...they do exist) and engine builder. His conversion uses a standard S-P flywheel/pressure plate/clutch disc assembly.

I am expecting to receive photos detailing the interior of the engine bay and will share them. I did measure a Haflinger case and it appears the original motor provides 1/4" LESS ground clearance when compared to the V-twin motor used in the conversion found on the eBay offering.

Take care.
Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com

[jhon]

Excellent Jim! really looking forward to some more detailed info..

[cascade.king]

The seller was a member of the Haflinger Pathfinder group on Facebook, where he detailed the extensive repairs and mods to the vehicle. There were many photos uploaded. Members of the group were quick to assist him with his technical questions and were very supportive of his work (the sheet metal work done to the truck was extensive) and helped with getting him connected to parts vendors.

Then, he abruptly requested that his photos be removed.. Leading me to believe he was uncomfortable having photos documenting the extent of the work online before sale.

It's unfortunate, as his work was a great reference for undertaking a "resto" of this magnitude.

Not many photos were shared re: the motor application at that time, though.

I'm interested in the swap, as well.

[Techmogogy]

The seller was a member of the Haflinger Pathfinder group on Facebook, where he detailed the extensive repairs and mods to the vehicle. There were many photos uploaded. Members of the group were quick to assist him with his technical questions and were very supportive of his work (the sheet metal work done to the truck was extensive) and helped with getting him connected to parts vendors.

Then, he abruptly requested that his photos be removed.. Leading me to believe he was uncomfortable having photos documenting the extent of the work online before sale.

It's unfortunate, as his work was a great reference for undertaking a "resto" of this magnitude.

Not many photos were shared re: the motor application at that time, though.

I'm interested in the swap, as well.

I wondered where all his photos went!!
He took a rusty old platform and basically rebuilt it with skill - if I had seen that truck I would have said it was good for parts only (shows my skill level).
Hopefully if there is a new owner they join up here and share some pics.

[AustHaflinger]

I agree - I guess we have all see hacked around Haffies that do will not run and will probably never run but when you see a vehicle that has been built and modified in a very sympathetic manner to the original - and in addition, has been professionally finished to a high standard then it clearly strikes a high level of interest and should be welcomed to the community.

So if the new owner becomes known, I hope they consider joining us with lots of follow up reports on how it runs and its use.

cheers

garry