703 for sale in Australia

[wojo12]

I have just discovered this 703 for sale, here in Australia, on carsales.com.au - https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/detail ... D-5795572/

[wojo12]

Here's one of the photos.

[heinkeljb]

£12,000.00 for it minimum puts it at the top of the price range, might be worth it if it has all the bits it is missing with it and they just need putting on. If they require refurbishment / purchasing then it definitely steep.

John

[AustHaflinger]

Not a bad looking vehicle - not sure what that thing is on the back - is not the same as the raised air vent box that was used on the Aussie Army haflingers.

This would not have been used in the Snowy Mountains Scheme as that completed in 1972 - 2 years before this Haffie was built. However they were used after the scheme was completed by either the Snowy Mountains Authority or the NSW Electricity Commission to get to remote locations in the Snowy Mountains to service the electrical infrastructure but they were found to be too fragile and were soon withdrawn and replaced with "normal" 4wds.

Given the work that seems to have been done (needs some verification) and if the rest is there price is at the top end.

Garry

[Julian B]

Not criticising it at all, but interested to learn more...

* wonder why the rear side boards appear to have been put on "inside out"?
* why would a 1974 Haflinger still have a Series 1 fuel tank (even in Australia)?
* ditto the rear lights, carb, side indicators
* going by the serial number one might think that the gearbox/transmission (and hence all of it) dates back to ~1964
* but if so why the side hatches on the engine bay?
* the rear "thing" above & behind the engine bay does look strange - possibly a one-off?
* I am fairly sure the routing of the speedo cable is not right
* the storage box under the passenger seat is taller / deeper than normal
* is the front bumper normal for Aus?

It has obviously had a huge amount of work / restoration done, with $$$ spent. Even the rear footwells look sound!

[heinkeljb]

There are quite a few things that are a bit strange on this haflinger, but the biggest one is the lack of a data plate in the drivers footwell. The number on the gearbox could be down to it having a replacement at some point in it's past, but the data plate missing suggests extensive platform work or even replacement.

If the whole of the drive train is original to gearbox (number relating to 1964), then it could also be that the platform is a Frankenstein combination of a 1964 and 1974 platform, but I would suggest it was a 1964 version which has had "work" done on it to remove rotten bits.

It looks a perfectly solid vehicle, but I can't say it is "original".

John

[pureredcordial]

My dad pointed out there are two photos of haflingers with that rear setup at http://tdc.haflinger-4wd.com/countries/australia.php

It could even be the same one that's in the black and white photo. Who knows.

The door is missing off the one on carsales.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[pathfinder700ap]

There existed two versions of the raised air vent. The Haflinger for sale has a version that goes all the way up to the top edge of the rear board.

Kind regards,
Constantin

[heinkeljb]

I would put it that the owner has not seen another Haflinger in the "flesh" to make any comparisons with during the rebuild of this one.
As pointed out, the rear platform side boards are "inside out". The rear axle limit straps have got the front axle "horns" as the nuts.

I think the biggest issue with this vehicle is the issue of the "build" date. If the seller is trying to pass it off as a 1974 vehicle, it obviously isn't. It might be a "spelling"(?) mistake and it should say 1964 - then not so bad. Is it a 703? That means it's a LWB doesn't it? The side boards suggest it is a SWB.

So all these and more suggest the seller is not very familiar with Haflingers.

John

[wojo12]

Is it a 703? That means it's a LWB doesn't it? The side boards suggest it is a SWB.

So all these and more suggest the seller is not very familiar with Haflingers.

John

From this photo, it certainly looks like a SWB.

[AustHaflinger]

That is not a 703 - also if it is a 74 where is the petrol tank - should be under the passenger seat but it is not - it is on the drivers side in front of the rear wheel like very early Hafs.

So this is a 74 bitza or is a much earlier haf. I tried to see if what the gear knob has on it but then I noticed it has no gear knob and has a weird bent lever.

Garry

[Doug Lennox]

Noticed a serial number there starting with 535xxx. The Haf I had was a 1969 model and it's serial numbers started with 536xxx. His workshop manual states 1969 and Mod 700 but that probably means nothin.

Cheers

Doug

[wojo12]

Noticed a serial number there starting with 535xxx. The Haf I had was a 1969 model and it's serial numbers started with 536xxx. His workshop manual states 1969 and Mod 700 but that probably means nothin.

Cheers

Doug

I read it as 5355921. I do not know how chassis numbers relate to years of manufacture, I can only guess that they were allocated in chronological order. Maybe someone in Sydney can investigate!! LOL

John W

[AustHaflinger]

My vehicle is a 73 (confirmed)

Vehicle Number is 521.2722
Chassis Number is 536.3936

So with a chassis starting with 535 means it is a much earlier. Unfortunately Puch had the curious numbering system of where the chassis number is taken from the gearbox number so if it the gearbox is changed then in theory the chassis number changes - logically the center tube is the chassis so maybe this should have been stamped or even if you think more broadly using the Vehicle Number would have been better as the chassis number than the gearbox number as bodies tend to remain consistent to the vehicles identity with components being changed - of course bodies do rust out.

So this vehicle is clearly not what is advertised.

EDIT - I just checked the haflinger page on the Australian Army LR Site - all Australian Army Haflingers were are Series 1s and were built in 1966 before August. Their Chassis Numbers are all 535.78XX with a couple starting 535.79XX

So the advertised Haf has a Chassis Number (from its gearbox) 535.5921 so is a much earlier vehicle than 1966. To me this is supported buy the body with its tank in front of the rear wheel.

This looks like an early haf not a late Series 2 - certainly not a 5 speed box and is either a 4 speed + Krawler box or even the earlier 4 speed unit - cannot tell from the pics.

Garry

[bernard callahan]

This a photo of both types of the tropical air vent, new ex army stock

[mechanical horse]

Hey Gang,
So having read the last few posts I am completely confused.
My gearbox/chassis number is 535 8783.
My engine number is 536 0219.
I don't know whether the two numbers should be the same, and if they should be, but are different, then that would mean that it has had an engine change, or maybe a gearbox change. I am unaware if mine has either of these changes. I have no ID plate on the vehicle at all and no sign around the drivers seat that there has ever been a plate fitted. I intend though to make a plate and fit it before I try for rego.
There is no sign of any holes in the nose cone to say that gear was bolted there so I suppose it is not an ex Army model. It does have a 5 speed gearbox, but I don't know if it is a 5 speeder or a 4 speeder with a crawler gear. Are those 2 gearboxes different?
The rear engine cover above the towbar hinges from the bottom and is by no means robust, as about half of it is metal and the other half is mesh, and has a centre placed handle.
On the LHS behind the front wheel is the fuel tank then the footwell for the rear seat and then the battery box. On the RHS behind the front wheel is a tool box then the rear seat footwell and then another tool box. When I started to reassemble the vehicle those items had to go in those positions because of the mounting holes in the platform wouldn't line up if you were trying to swap things around.It has got 2 fuse panel on the RHS of the dash and one of the lights on the dash indicates "low fuel". There is no fuel gauge. My handbrake lever is 300 mm long, is perfecty central and doesn't go any where near touching the gear stick in any gear.
It has got a 2 person cabin made of sheet metal, with sliding widows, and I have seen the same cabin on other Haffies in photos taken in Australia. The front of the roof is not at windscreen height as it has a 50 mm increase in height of the windscreen frame, which gives a bit more head clearance in the cabin.
Recently there were 3 Haffies here at home and they were all different in a lot of different areas. Even the mufflers were all different with the outlet pipes going in all directions the fuel tanks were different, engine covers,windscreen frames, seats and wheels all though we had all fitted non genuine wheels.
I have been told that mine is a 1968 model but I can't remember who told me that but I think it was our source of parts in bonny old Scotland.
Having looked at maybe hundreds of photos of Haffies in all different shapes I have given up on what a particular years model should look like. Do all models for example built in 1968 look exactly the same for the year or did they perhaps change things part way through the year.
Thanks all for a great blog.
Regards Rick.

[Julian B]

The gearbox / chassis number or Fahrgest Nr. (as stamped vertically on a flange at the rear end of the central tube) was never the same as the engine number (as stamped in to the lower right rear corner of the engine). In addition to these number is a third number - not sure what it is called, but some call it the chassis number, others a "production number" or Fahrzeug Nr.. All three should be on the data plate by the front seat. It is common for the engine number to have been changed, but less less common for the gearbox number.

Looking back at some notes I have, one might ordinarily expect the Fahrgest Nr. 535 8783 to date back to late 1967 / early 1968, ditto the engine number. You say you can't find the data plate, but based on the gearbox & engine numbers one might expect the Fahrzeug Nr to be ABOUT 53086xx.

I believe that the (later) 5 speed gearbox has some slightly different ratios to the 4 + crawler gearbox, but the details are beyond my pay grade!

As far as I am aware, all / most Haflinger in any one year / period would look the same except for things like snorkels / air filters / roofs / bug eye headlights etc. Your tank / boxes / footwell layout sounds like a classic Series 2, and that also fits with late 1967 / early 1968 onwards.

[wojo12]

Your other option is to pay a small fortune and get a build certificate from Scotland, based on the Chassis (gearbox) number. It tells you lots of info.

Here is one that has been posted up here previously.

Cheers

John W

[heinkeljb]

Rick,
Something to keep in the back of your mind in relation to a Haflinger - other than the running gear, the platform with two seats up front and a windscreen - Everything else is an optional extra!

So the two tool boxes you have on the RHS are extras, the spare wheel is an extra, the cabin would have been an extra. The fuel gauge is an optional extra, so you only got the low fuel level warning light if you didn't specify the fuel gauge.

Have you taken it back to bare metal on the drivers side footwell (under the legs) looking for hole that would indicate where the DATA plate would have been riveted? It is possible that part has been repaired in the past as one of the rust points is the double layer bit where the steering box goes and where the strengthener under the drivers seat makes a double layer. So could well have been "fixed" some time in the past.

"Mufflers" being different could be down to whether the Haf originally had heat exchangers fitted or not. Also there could quite easily be "local" content, like the cabin roof that would be different if one of the Haf's you were looking at was a "private" import rather than sold from the "official" dealership system.

There are officially two different petrol tanks, Early, fitted to the RHS approximately halfway along the platform, then the Mark II (later) one which is fitted to the LHS just behind the front wheel. Filler for the later tank could be either under the seat or have a neck on it to open just behind the cabin.

So as you can see, there is a fair amount of variation even on "standard" Haflinger let alone on overseas ones which would have to have a "local content" to allow them to be brought in and sold.

I think there are two sorts of "back to original" type restorations. The first is that you attempt to get the vehicle back to how it came from the factory, but somehow most people seem to end up with something that is "better"than factory....
The second is that you attempt to get the vehicle back to how it was at "some point" in it's past. This might be, for instance, how it was when it was used by a business or on a farm or something...
So you can decide on how you restore YOUR haflinger and not worry about what others would like you to do to it.

John

[Julian B]

Something to keep in the back of your mind in relation to a Haflinger - other than the running gear, the platform with two seats up front and a windscreen - Everything else is an optional extra!

So the two tool boxes you have on the RHS are extras, the spare wheel is an extra, the cabin would have been an extra. The fuel gauge is an optional extra, so you only got the low fuel level warning light if you didn't specify the fuel gauge.

Not sure the tool boxes or spare wheel were ever optional accessories, but I take your point about every Haflinger being slightly different. I've attached a UK Price List from 1972 which gives you an idea of what was possible...